This months EVO, best FWD drivers car of all time....
04-08-2006 | 11:55 AM
#41
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Originally Posted by RichardPON
Since when did EVO journos know fuck all about cars?
I'd say their methodical appraoch to testing, and their combined knowledge is fairly extensive. They've got Gordon Murray as a guest writer - clearly they should have asked you instead Chip.
In fact, I'd say they were about as independent as possible - if any of their fleet cars are serviced or worked on, they give an honest appraisal of the service recieved as possible, often negative if that is the case.
Car reviews are also fairly spot on - they always come in for criticism when it comes to their shootouts but they are obviously limited, and if I remember the article correctly, they certainly gave the old mini the deserved credit.
Stil, I can't understand where I've been going wrong all this time? I looked to EVO as a one of the finest motoring magazines available, when all this time I should have been looking to Total Vauxhall as the bastion of unbiased motoring journalism.
I'd say their methodical appraoch to testing, and their combined knowledge is fairly extensive. They've got Gordon Murray as a guest writer - clearly they should have asked you instead Chip.
In fact, I'd say they were about as independent as possible - if any of their fleet cars are serviced or worked on, they give an honest appraisal of the service recieved as possible, often negative if that is the case.
Car reviews are also fairly spot on - they always come in for criticism when it comes to their shootouts but they are obviously limited, and if I remember the article correctly, they certainly gave the old mini the deserved credit.
Stil, I can't understand where I've been going wrong all this time? I looked to EVO as a one of the finest motoring magazines available, when all this time I should have been looking to Total Vauxhall as the bastion of unbiased motoring journalism.
They don't mind admitting when they get things wrong either. They have really changed their mind of the Focus RS over the years
04-08-2006 | 11:56 AM
#42
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Originally Posted by Porkie
Originally Posted by RichardPON
Since when did EVO journos know fuck all about cars?
I'd say their methodical appraoch to testing, and their combined knowledge is fairly extensive. They've got Gordon Murray as a guest writer - clearly they should have asked you instead Chip.
In fact, I'd say they were about as independent as possible - if any of their fleet cars are serviced or worked on, they give an honest appraisal of the service recieved as possible, often negative if that is the case.
Car reviews are also fairly spot on - they always come in for criticism when it comes to their shootouts but they are obviously limited, and if I remember the article correctly, they certainly gave the old mini the deserved credit.
Stil, I can't understand where I've been going wrong all this time? I looked to EVO as a one of the finest motoring magazines available, when all this time I should have been looking to Total Vauxhall as the bastion of unbiased motoring journalism.
I'd say their methodical appraoch to testing, and their combined knowledge is fairly extensive. They've got Gordon Murray as a guest writer - clearly they should have asked you instead Chip.
In fact, I'd say they were about as independent as possible - if any of their fleet cars are serviced or worked on, they give an honest appraisal of the service recieved as possible, often negative if that is the case.
Car reviews are also fairly spot on - they always come in for criticism when it comes to their shootouts but they are obviously limited, and if I remember the article correctly, they certainly gave the old mini the deserved credit.
Stil, I can't understand where I've been going wrong all this time? I looked to EVO as a one of the finest motoring magazines available, when all this time I should have been looking to Total Vauxhall as the bastion of unbiased motoring journalism.
They don't mind admitting when they get things wrong either. They have really changed their mind of the Focus RS over the years
04-08-2006 | 11:57 AM
#43
Originally Posted by Porkie
Originally Posted by RichardPON
Since when did EVO journos know fuck all about cars?
I'd say their methodical appraoch to testing, and their combined knowledge is fairly extensive. They've got Gordon Murray as a guest writer - clearly they should have asked you instead Chip.
In fact, I'd say they were about as independent as possible - if any of their fleet cars are serviced or worked on, they give an honest appraisal of the service recieved as possible, often negative if that is the case.
Car reviews are also fairly spot on - they always come in for criticism when it comes to their shootouts but they are obviously limited, and if I remember the article correctly, they certainly gave the old mini the deserved credit.
Stil, I can't understand where I've been going wrong all this time? I looked to EVO as a one of the finest motoring magazines available, when all this time I should have been looking to Total Vauxhall as the bastion of unbiased motoring journalism.
I'd say their methodical appraoch to testing, and their combined knowledge is fairly extensive. They've got Gordon Murray as a guest writer - clearly they should have asked you instead Chip.
In fact, I'd say they were about as independent as possible - if any of their fleet cars are serviced or worked on, they give an honest appraisal of the service recieved as possible, often negative if that is the case.
Car reviews are also fairly spot on - they always come in for criticism when it comes to their shootouts but they are obviously limited, and if I remember the article correctly, they certainly gave the old mini the deserved credit.
Stil, I can't understand where I've been going wrong all this time? I looked to EVO as a one of the finest motoring magazines available, when all this time I should have been looking to Total Vauxhall as the bastion of unbiased motoring journalism.
They don't mind admitting when they get things wrong either. They have really changed their mind of the Focus RS over the years
. They now reckon you need to drive a few to find a goo 'un....
04-08-2006 | 11:58 AM
#44
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Originally Posted by MattRS1600i
lol, no, it was a pro driver, i have the magazine at home, i'll try to get details up later, however i do agree with your second point
I like stuff like that alot
04-08-2006 | 12:00 PM
#46
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Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Originally Posted by Porkie
Originally Posted by RichardPON
Since when did EVO journos know fuck all about cars?
I'd say their methodical appraoch to testing, and their combined knowledge is fairly extensive. They've got Gordon Murray as a guest writer - clearly they should have asked you instead Chip.
In fact, I'd say they were about as independent as possible - if any of their fleet cars are serviced or worked on, they give an honest appraisal of the service recieved as possible, often negative if that is the case.
Car reviews are also fairly spot on - they always come in for criticism when it comes to their shootouts but they are obviously limited, and if I remember the article correctly, they certainly gave the old mini the deserved credit.
Stil, I can't understand where I've been going wrong all this time? I looked to EVO as a one of the finest motoring magazines available, when all this time I should have been looking to Total Vauxhall as the bastion of unbiased motoring journalism.
I'd say their methodical appraoch to testing, and their combined knowledge is fairly extensive. They've got Gordon Murray as a guest writer - clearly they should have asked you instead Chip.
In fact, I'd say they were about as independent as possible - if any of their fleet cars are serviced or worked on, they give an honest appraisal of the service recieved as possible, often negative if that is the case.
Car reviews are also fairly spot on - they always come in for criticism when it comes to their shootouts but they are obviously limited, and if I remember the article correctly, they certainly gave the old mini the deserved credit.
Stil, I can't understand where I've been going wrong all this time? I looked to EVO as a one of the finest motoring magazines available, when all this time I should have been looking to Total Vauxhall as the bastion of unbiased motoring journalism.
They don't mind admitting when they get things wrong either. They have really changed their mind of the Focus RS over the years
. They now reckon you need to drive a few to find a goo 'un....
Read what I wrote! I said... they have really changed their mind on it over the years!!!! 
04-08-2006 | 12:03 PM
#48
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Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Yes first they thought it was poor, then they thought it was great and now they think it is average again and depends entirely on whether you manage to find a "sweet" one or not .
and depends entirely on whether you manage to find a "sweet" one or not .
04-08-2006 | 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Yes first they thought it was poor, then they thought it was great and now they think it is average again and depends entirely on whether you manage to find a "sweet" one or not .
and depends entirely on whether you manage to find a "sweet" one or not .Whilst i recognise ford dont make cars the way that toyota do i dont beleive for a minute there was THAT much difference between the ones they tested in reality.
04-08-2006 | 12:10 PM
#56
Bloody interesting article. Only one ive driven out of that lot is a clio williams which i thought was amazing down windy B roads so love to have a go in the cars rated above that! 
Surprised the 205 still did so well,its a real credit to the car being as the design is how old? 25 years or so?
I am actually buying one very soon anyway but love to see what they mean properly now
Surprised the 205 still did so well,its a real credit to the car being as the design is how old? 25 years or so?
I am actually buying one very soon anyway but love to see what they mean properly now
04-08-2006 | 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Cam
So the Integra won then?
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/list.asp?s=233
Loads for sale!
04-08-2006 | 12:12 PM
#58
Originally Posted by chip-3door
Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Yes first they thought it was poor, then they thought it was great and now they think it is average again and depends entirely on whether you manage to find a "sweet" one or not .
and depends entirely on whether you manage to find a "sweet" one or not .Whilst i recognise ford dont make cars the way that toyota do i dont beleive for a minute there was THAT much difference between the ones they tested in reality.
They then tested a reader's car some months ago, that exhibited none of these traits and it immediately made it into one of the best handling cars they had tested.
The next one they got for this test, although not as bad as the original press cars, exhibited similar traits, and it spoilt the experience for them. They acknowledged that had it been as sweet as the last one, that it would have made the top six, so they were disappointed themselves.....
04-08-2006 | 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by chip-3door
Teg or the 205 would be my choice from that innacurate top 15 compiled by people who obvously havent ever driven a decent original mini
Its not like they have not even mentioned it.
04-08-2006 | 12:15 PM
#61
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Originally Posted by Porkie
Originally Posted by Cam
So the Integra won then?
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/list.asp?s=233
Loads for sale!
04-08-2006 | 12:15 PM
#62
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Originally Posted by Porkie
Originally Posted by Cam
So the Integra won then?
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/list.asp?s=233
Loads for sale!
04-08-2006 | 12:17 PM
#63
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Originally Posted by 89XR2
Originally Posted by Porkie
Originally Posted by Cam
So the Integra won then?
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/list.asp?s=233
Loads for sale!
04-08-2006 | 12:19 PM
#64
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Why the FUCK are these not included?
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/82911.htm
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/82596.htm
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/82911.htm
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/82596.htm
04-08-2006 | 12:21 PM
#65
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Originally Posted by Porkie
Originally Posted by chip-3door
Teg or the 205 would be my choice from that innacurate top 15 compiled by people who obvously havent ever driven a decent original mini
Its not like they have not even mentioned it.
No mate, i havent read this months EVO yet, its not something i read very often TBH, i never buy it, so all depends when a colleague leaves a copy lieing around or not.
Fair play to them though if they had their eyes open enough to consider one, and yes i recongnise that it doesnt have the creature comforts of a modern car, so i guess it depends what you class as a "drivers" car, to me a drivers car shouldnt have:
ABS
TC
PAS
As all those things make me feel detached from the car, although i must admit some of the modern ones are getting better at making you feel like its you in control again, the latest shape MR2 ABS for example feels quite nice to use even on track
Im from a bygone age though, i wouldnt really expect my opinions to be reflected in the mainstream popular motoring press publishications and my comments were very tongue in cheek, i agree with their choice on most of those cars to a certain extent
04-08-2006 | 12:22 PM
#66
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Originally Posted by Bat-fink
Why the FUCK are these not included?
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/82911.htm
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/82596.htm
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/82911.htm
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/82596.htm
04-08-2006 | 12:23 PM
#67
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Originally Posted by Bat-fink
Why the FUCK are these not included?
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/82911.htm
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/82596.htm
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/82911.htm
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/82596.htm
04-08-2006 | 12:24 PM
#68
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Originally Posted by Daveyboy
well if chip will be pleased, i would guess the integra seeing as he has one.
I actually believe that car is the source of his biggest motoring heartbreak!
04-08-2006 | 12:24 PM
#69
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Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Originally Posted by chip-3door
Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Yes first they thought it was poor, then they thought it was great and now they think it is average again and depends entirely on whether you manage to find a "sweet" one or not .
and depends entirely on whether you manage to find a "sweet" one or not .Whilst i recognise ford dont make cars the way that toyota do i dont beleive for a minute there was THAT much difference between the ones they tested in reality.
They then tested a reader's car some months ago, that exhibited none of these traits and it immediately made it into one of the best handling cars they had tested.
The next one they got for this test, although not as bad as the original press cars, exhibited similar traits, and it spoilt the experience for them. They acknowledged that had it been as sweet as the last one, that it would have made the top six, so they were disappointed themselves.....
Cause i really cant see 3 modern production cars varying by THAT much in all honesty, even shonky ford ones!
04-08-2006 | 12:25 PM
#70
Anyone used to read performance car back in the day?
They did a interesting best hot hatch test.
Clio Williams, 205Gti, Renault 5 GT, Civc Type R (EK shape) and couple of others which i cant remember now.
Willams won, then i think it was 205 then Renault 5. Rememmber them mentioning how good it was to drive a standard unmolested Renault 5.
They did a interesting best hot hatch test.
Clio Williams, 205Gti, Renault 5 GT, Civc Type R (EK shape) and couple of others which i cant remember now.
Willams won, then i think it was 205 then Renault 5. Rememmber them mentioning how good it was to drive a standard unmolested Renault 5.
04-08-2006 | 12:26 PM
#71
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Originally Posted by Cam
Originally Posted by Bat-fink
Why the FUCK are these not included?
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/82911.htm
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/82596.htm
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/82911.htm
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/82596.htm
crap light car with an engine that can be made fairly quick
Not in any way a "drivers car" IMHO
I would have been amazed if that featured in any serious list of drivers or handling cars TBH
04-08-2006 | 12:30 PM
#72
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Originally Posted by XRT_si
Anyone used to read performance car back in the day?
They did a interesting best hot hatch test.
Clio Williams, 205Gti, Renault 5 GT, Civc Type R (EK shape) and couple of others which i cant remember now.
Willams won, then i think it was 205 then Renault 5. Rememmber them mentioning how good it was to drive a standard unmolested Renault 5.
They did a interesting best hot hatch test.
Clio Williams, 205Gti, Renault 5 GT, Civc Type R (EK shape) and couple of others which i cant remember now.
Willams won, then i think it was 205 then Renault 5. Rememmber them mentioning how good it was to drive a standard unmolested Renault 5.
Now that does surpise me.
Not that i've driven either but honda are usually spot on with their cars.
Porkie, out of interest was the original door stop shaped crx mentioned in evo anywhere?
04-08-2006 | 12:30 PM
#73
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Chip mate, do you really feel that PAS makes a car worse to drive? I guess being younger than you I take it for granted more, but I have driven both and honestly feel you are in more control with PAS.
04-08-2006 | 12:31 PM
#74
Chip,
I believe from memory that the last one used on this test may have been Blue-finned, I'm sure I remember reading that. Lee obviously has the mag in front of him, so could confirm...
I believe from memory that the last one used on this test may have been Blue-finned, I'm sure I remember reading that
. Lee obviously has the mag in front of him, so could confirm...
04-08-2006 | 12:33 PM
#75
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Originally Posted by DogSmoke
Chip mate, do you really feel that PAS makes a car worse to drive? I guess being younger than you I take it for granted more, but I have driven both and honestly feel you are in more control with PAS.
04-08-2006 | 12:33 PM
#76
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Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Chip,
I believe from memory that the last one used on this test may have been Blue-finned, I'm sure I remember reading that. Lee obviously has the mag in front of him, so could confirm...
I believe from memory that the last one used on this test may have been Blue-finned, I'm sure I remember reading that
. Lee obviously has the mag in front of him, so could confirm...
04-08-2006 | 12:34 PM
#77
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From: N-Town
Originally Posted by DogSmoke
Chip mate, do you really feel that PAS makes a car worse to drive? I guess being younger than you I take it for granted more, but I have driven both and honestly feel you are in more control with PAS.
04-08-2006 | 12:37 PM
#78
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From: Leeds, West Yorkshire
Originally Posted by chip-3door
Originally Posted by DogSmoke
Chip mate, do you really feel that PAS makes a car worse to drive? I guess being younger than you I take it for granted more, but I have driven both and honestly feel you are in more control with PAS.
04-08-2006 | 12:37 PM
#79
Originally Posted by 89XR2
Originally Posted by XRT_si
Anyone used to read performance car back in the day?
They did a interesting best hot hatch test.
Clio Williams, 205Gti, Renault 5 GT, Civc Type R (EK shape) and couple of others which i cant remember now.
Willams won, then i think it was 205 then Renault 5. Rememmber them mentioning how good it was to drive a standard unmolested Renault 5.
They did a interesting best hot hatch test.
Clio Williams, 205Gti, Renault 5 GT, Civc Type R (EK shape) and couple of others which i cant remember now.
Willams won, then i think it was 205 then Renault 5. Rememmber them mentioning how good it was to drive a standard unmolested Renault 5.
Now that does surpise me.
Not that i've driven either but honda are usually spot on with their cars.
Porkie, out of interest was the original door stop shaped crx mentioned in evo anywhere?
Performance Car also did a break down on about 20 other FWD greats, CRX and RS1600i were both mentioned on that but then you have to bear in mind this was all before the new wave of hot hatchs had come out such asd the Focus RS etc...
04-08-2006 | 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by chip-3door
Originally Posted by Cam
Originally Posted by Bat-fink
Why the FUCK are these not included?
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/82911.htm
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/82596.htm
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/82911.htm
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/82596.htm
crap light car with an engine that can be made fairly quick
Not in any way a "drivers car" IMHO
I would have been amazed if that featured in any serious list of drivers or handling cars TBH
Never driven one myself