Rolling road graph torgue tail off?
16-06-2006, 10:37 AM
#45
Mike, do you think that if he came up with some way of buring a fuel source in a pressurised envoriment he could maybe use that to move the vehicle along by itself without needing horses to pull it?
Like a kind of "internal combustion" arrangement to make some sort of power delivery "engine"?
Nah, that'll never catch on
Like a kind of "internal combustion" arrangement to make some sort of power delivery "engine"?
Nah, that'll never catch on
16-06-2006, 10:38 AM
#46
Professional Waffler
Originally Posted by TF Rallyesport
power at the wheels is important??????
how did you work that out then?torque moves a vehicle not horsepower.
how did you work that out then?torque moves a vehicle not horsepower.
remember you can have a torque but no brake horse power (torque wrench when its just about the click
)but you cant have BHP and no torque
16-06-2006, 10:40 AM
#47
Professional Waffler
Originally Posted by chip-3door
Mike, do you think that if he came up with some way of buring a fuel source in a pressurised envoriment he could maybe use that to move the vehicle along by itself without needing horses to pull it?
Like a kind of "internal combustion" arrangement to make some sort of power delivery "engine"?
Nah, that'll never catch on
Like a kind of "internal combustion" arrangement to make some sort of power delivery "engine"?
Nah, that'll never catch on
16-06-2006, 10:41 AM
#48
Originally Posted by GARETH T
Originally Posted by chip-3door
Mike, do you think that if he came up with some way of buring a fuel source in a pressurised envoriment he could maybe use that to move the vehicle along by itself without needing horses to pull it?
Like a kind of "internal combustion" arrangement to make some sort of power delivery "engine"?
Nah, that'll never catch on
Like a kind of "internal combustion" arrangement to make some sort of power delivery "engine"?
Nah, that'll never catch on
16-06-2006, 11:00 AM
#49
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Mike R, Stu, and Mike Gurney on the same thread!
It's like the old days!
Little harsh of you to question Mike G's experience of DD rolling roads - somehow I think he has a little more experience of them than most......
It's like the old days!
Little harsh of you to question Mike G's experience of DD rolling roads - somehow I think he has a little more experience of them than most......
16-06-2006, 11:06 AM
#50
Originally Posted by RichardPON
Mike R, Stu, and Mike Gurney on the same thread!
It's like the old days!
Little harsh of you to question Mike G's experience of DD rolling roads - somehow I think he has a little more experience of them than most......
It's like the old days!
Little harsh of you to question Mike G's experience of DD rolling roads - somehow I think he has a little more experience of them than most......
) - 402bhp @ peak of 26psi and held 17psi on a T3/4 0.55 a/r - I don't think so..... .
16-06-2006, 11:20 AM
#51
Originally Posted by RichardPON
Little harsh of you to question Mike G's experience of DD rolling roads - somehow I think he has a little more experience of them than most......
16-06-2006, 12:00 PM
#52
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I don't disagree - all I was saying was that Mike gave a reason why the figures might differ........
I'm also sure Mike would be able to answer why your boost figures differed etc, but more often than not, it casts aspersions more on the rr operator, than the equipment....
I'm also sure Mike would be able to answer why your boost figures differed etc, but more often than not, it casts aspersions more on the rr operator, than the equipment....
16-06-2006, 12:03 PM
#53
Originally Posted by RichardPON
I don't disagree - all I was saying was that Mike gave a reason why the figures might differ........
I'm also sure Mike would be able to answer why your boost figures differed etc, but more often than not, it casts aspersions more on the rr operator, than the equipment....
I'm also sure Mike would be able to answer why your boost figures differed etc, but more often than not, it casts aspersions more on the rr operator, than the equipment....
1) Incorrect pressure reading equip.
2) Insufficient load on the flywheel.
3) Massive air temps and ecu safety correction coming into play.
Fact remains, without boost, theres no point running the engine on teh rollers... surely you agree with that?
16-06-2006, 12:09 PM
#54
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Yes, yes of course.........
all I was hinting at is that the rr op has the ability to change certain parameters, which can obviously influence the figures wildly. Surely that can't be discounted for Mike R's "dubious" reading.......
all I was hinting at is that the rr op has the ability to change certain parameters, which can obviously influence the figures wildly. Surely that can't be discounted for Mike R's "dubious" reading.......
16-06-2006, 12:12 PM
#55
Originally Posted by RichardPON
all I was hinting at is that the rr op has the ability to change certain parameters, which can obviously influence the figures wildly. Surely that can't be discounted for Mike R's "dubious" reading.......
16-06-2006, 12:21 PM
#56
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Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Gareth,
It's already been done - the new Toyota hybrid Lexus thing does EXACTLY what you said. Was tested on Fifth Gear on the last episode. Sounded odd and I would not want one, as the change in pitch is half the fun of a sports car.
It's already been done - the new Toyota hybrid Lexus thing does EXACTLY what you said. Was tested on Fifth Gear on the last episode. Sounded odd and I would not want one, as the change in pitch is half the fun of a sports car.
I agree about the noise as well Mike. Remember what my Porsche sounds like inside
It means that even though its actually no faster than a 3 legged stoned and over weight sloth, it FEELS like its going 10000mph
16-06-2006, 12:52 PM
#57
I sat in car with him, so I know the ACTs were not the issue.
However, in shoot-out mode the operator can't change anything - that is the point of it (as in no cheating). Obviously the up-side is the repeatability - every single DD shootout (mode for mode) should produce almost the exact same figures (given that air flow / cooling is not limited) from DD rolling road to DD rolling road. The point I am making is, that due to the the limited loading, there isn't a lot of point as it doesn't give an accurate representation of the car.
However, in shoot-out mode the operator can't change anything - that is the point of it (as in no cheating). Obviously the up-side is the repeatability - every single DD shootout (mode for mode) should produce almost the exact same figures (given that air flow / cooling is not limited) from DD rolling road to DD rolling road. The point I am making is, that due to the the limited loading, there isn't a lot of point as it doesn't give an accurate representation of the car.
16-06-2006, 05:13 PM
#58
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Originally Posted by Mike Gurney
Mike I suggest you get your facts right before you make such accuations
something that people do not realise is that cars normally make more power at the wheels in 3rd gear than they do in 4th
surely you would want your car to be able to produce max power on a run ?
My opinion on the graph is this
The operator has not used the rpm pickup - getting a signal from an Escort Cosworth is very very easy - It looks to me the rpm is not fully correct (this will not affect the HP )
The torque does drop off quite rapidly - this is common on engines where the cylinder head is restrictive - does the car have a ported head on it ?
Remember at the end of the day it is power at the wheels that is important
I would recommend retesting the car in 4th to compare the boost pressures
something that people do not realise is that cars normally make more power at the wheels in 3rd gear than they do in 4th
surely you would want your car to be able to produce max power on a run ?
My opinion on the graph is this
The operator has not used the rpm pickup - getting a signal from an Escort Cosworth is very very easy - It looks to me the rpm is not fully correct (this will not affect the HP )
The torque does drop off quite rapidly - this is common on engines where the cylinder head is restrictive - does the car have a ported head on it ?
Remember at the end of the day it is power at the wheels that is important
I would recommend retesting the car in 4th to compare the boost pressures
. Irrespective of what gear it is running in, if it doesn't load the car up how it is loaded on the road, the figures will be WAY off.Unless of course, you're saying that the difference of 10psi wouldn't amount to much
. In shootout mode a 370hp Evo takes 2 seconds longer than it does on the road to complete 2.5k to redline also with closed loop boost control you get the same boost as you do on the road in 3rd gear,
If you have a duty based boost controler you need to up it slightly to match what you get in the road in 4th however if you want to match it in 3rd you do nothing
,I will be investing in a DD RR very soon but I will also be paying much attention to airflow and cooling to the cell.
I will also be running Rods new spec on one also at full power
Mark
16-06-2006, 10:27 PM
#59
Professional Waffler
Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
I sat in car with him, so I know the ACTs were not the issue.
However, in shoot-out mode the operator can't change anything - that is the point of it (as in no cheating). .
However, in shoot-out mode the operator can't change anything - that is the point of it (as in no cheating). .
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