View Poll Results: whose to blame?
Voters: 53. You may not vote on this poll
Big Crasher - Whose to blame, you decide!
10-04-2006, 11:50 PM
#41
The driver of the car with the camera should have approached the slower car with a little more caution especially as it was going into a hairpin bend.
Just because your faster and bigger dosnt give you the automatic right to have the line you want....
I can see im in a minority but to me it could have easily been avoided.
Just because your faster and bigger dosnt give you the automatic right to have the line you want....
I can see im in a minority but to me it could have easily been avoided.
11-04-2006, 12:09 AM
#43
2nd word... CAUTION
Mirrors can be knocked off in a prior racing incident, so cant be 100% relied upon. Anticipation and caution however is a skill given to all drivers, but used by few.
Thats why accidents happen.
I didn't actually say who I thought was to blame, just made a comment to provoke further discussion to see if the poll changes any
Mirrors can be knocked off in a prior racing incident, so cant be 100% relied upon. Anticipation and caution however is a skill given to all drivers, but used by few.
Thats why accidents happen.
I didn't actually say who I thought was to blame, just made a comment to provoke further discussion to see if the poll changes any
11-04-2006, 12:22 AM
#44
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I just think it was a racing incident caused by both parties, not just one individual. I don't think it was the focus' fault but at the same time I don't think it was entirely the fault of the fiesta. Just one of those things.
I think it would be unfair to blame either party tbh.
I think it would be unfair to blame either party tbh.
11-04-2006, 07:41 AM
#45
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Originally Posted by NUTS RuS
The driver of the car with the camera should have approached the slower car with a little more caution especially as it was going into a hairpin bend.
Just because your faster and bigger dosnt give you the automatic right to have the line you want....
I can see im in a minority but to me it could have easily been avoided.
Just because your faster and bigger dosnt give you the automatic right to have the line you want....
I can see im in a minority but to me it could have easily been avoided.
If you want a honest and objective opinion then ask someone like Tony Ryan or another experienced racer.
11-04-2006, 08:01 AM
#50
The point is that oiile allen,s dad is on the phone jumping up in down
wanting money for the fiesta
Which he is getting none of course...
There was 8k of damage o to the focus & you didnt se andrew asking for that.
If you take a car on the race track this is the risk you take the poll wasnt started because andy wants money just to put a point across that he has no ground to ask for money.,
wanting money for the fiesta
Which he is getting none of course...
There was 8k of damage o to the focus & you didnt se andrew asking for that.
If you take a car on the race track this is the risk you take the poll wasnt started because andy wants money just to put a point across that he has no ground to ask for money.,
11-04-2006, 08:49 AM
#51
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Originally Posted by andrewfgallacher
do you's think i should pay for the damage to the fiesta??
It hasn't been proved categorically who was to blame. I always take the view that the car cutting in should be apportioned a large part of the blame, especially in circumstances when they have left enough room for another car to pass on the inside.
Offering any sort of recompense to Ollie will show a sign that you were to blame and this doesn't appear to be the case. I was at Mallory but didn't see the actual crash, but I was witness to the furore afterwards in the pits.
Surely everyone enters these races. does so at their own risk and at their own cost. Racing incidents happen.... fact!
11-04-2006, 08:55 AM
#52
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Originally Posted by andrewfgallacher
do you's think i should pay for the damage to the fiesta??
11-04-2006, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by andrewfgallacher
do you's think i should pay for the damage to the fiesta??
11-04-2006, 10:41 AM
#58
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Originally Posted by carlo
Originally Posted by Porkie
Just spoken and showed this to 2 experienced race drivers... Sorry to say guys but they think it was the Focus at Fault
Other guy just said 'def Focus Fault' I think he must of been a bit busy
Sorry guys. I am NO fan of that Fiesta by the way! I had a huge row about it on here once as he was saying it did 0-60 in 3 secs or something.
I also want the Fiesta and Focus to be able to run in the series as they are VERY exciting and interesting cars
11-04-2006, 12:07 PM
#62
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Got to say the Focus is at fault there. I have a little race experience from karting and single seater days not all that long ago.
I've watched the vid many times over now, and if you pause it approximately where the Focus's front wheels are level with the Fiesta's rears, there's barely a car's width of racetrack available to the Focus. You can also see the Fiesta make the initial turn in just before the Focus approaches.
Personally, and as I understand it, it's the overtaking car's responsibility to see themselves past the slower car, as you are still overtaking in a racing scenario. For me, the Fiesta had the line, the Focus is obviously a vastly quicker car, and could have overtaken at plenty of other places on the circuit.
The only way the accident could have been avoided is if the Fiesta had swerved to avoid the Focus, and no blue flag I've had any experience of suggests that as a course of action. Or, of course, the Focus hadn't tried that kind of move in the first place.
However, should you pay? Not a bit of it. Racing is racing. If the MSA deem it a case of danerous, irresponsible, or reckless driving, then maybe he has a case, but without the backing of the motorsport's governing body, he unfortunately doesn't have a leg to stand on.
I've watched the vid many times over now, and if you pause it approximately where the Focus's front wheels are level with the Fiesta's rears, there's barely a car's width of racetrack available to the Focus. You can also see the Fiesta make the initial turn in just before the Focus approaches.
Personally, and as I understand it, it's the overtaking car's responsibility to see themselves past the slower car, as you are still overtaking in a racing scenario. For me, the Fiesta had the line, the Focus is obviously a vastly quicker car, and could have overtaken at plenty of other places on the circuit.
The only way the accident could have been avoided is if the Fiesta had swerved to avoid the Focus, and no blue flag I've had any experience of suggests that as a course of action. Or, of course, the Focus hadn't tried that kind of move in the first place.
However, should you pay? Not a bit of it. Racing is racing. If the MSA deem it a case of danerous, irresponsible, or reckless driving, then maybe he has a case, but without the backing of the motorsport's governing body, he unfortunately doesn't have a leg to stand on.
11-04-2006, 01:31 PM
#63
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Originally Posted by RichardPON
However, should you pay? Not a bit of it. Racing is racing. If the MSA deem it a case of danerous, irresponsible, or reckless driving, then maybe he has a case, but without the backing of the motorsport's governing body, he unfortunately doesn't have a leg to stand on.
11-04-2006, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by RichardPON
I've watched the vid many times over now, and if you pause it approximately where the Focus's front wheels are level with the Fiesta's rears, there's barely a car's width of racetrack available to the Focus. You can also see the Fiesta make the initial turn in just before the Focus approaches.
a] The white 3dr in front of them hadn't even begun to turn in to the hairpin or had just started to when the impact took place behind him.
b] Why was Ollie making the manouvre to turn into the hairpin so early and so sharply, he was a long way from it and the white 3dr.
c] You can still see the 3dr in the vid clip when the impact took place, so that shows how far from the hairpin Ollie was.
d] Was it the 3dr that had been shown the blue flag and Ollie assumed this was for him to pass it, so pulled over early to go inside it, as the 3dr was definitely staying out wide.
e] Was the blue flag being shown to Ollie to warn him that a faster car was behind and to move over?
Whatever way it is interpreted, Ollie should have looked in his mirrors before pulling out IMO and I don't think Andy can wholly be blamed for this.
11-04-2006, 03:21 PM
#66
b] Why was Ollie making the manouvre to turn into the hairpin so early and so sharply, he was a long way from it and the white 3dr.
Exactly if he hadnt moved over & looked in his mirror the crash simply wouldnt have happend
No matter how fast the focus was going andrew had enough room and brakes to pull of what he was doing & let ollie carry on in the line he originally was taking & after all he did turn in. Andrew hit the o/s/f of oiiles car if he didnt have room he would have hit the back of the car.
The fact of the matter is andrew should not be paying for his car as oiile could have avoided the accident as much as andrew.
Exactly if he hadnt moved over & looked in his mirror the crash simply wouldnt have happend
No matter how fast the focus was going andrew had enough room and brakes to pull of what he was doing & let ollie carry on in the line he originally was taking & after all he did turn in. Andrew hit the o/s/f of oiiles car if he didnt have room he would have hit the back of the car.
The fact of the matter is andrew should not be paying for his car as oiile could have avoided the accident as much as andrew.
11-04-2006, 03:35 PM
#67
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Originally Posted by carlo
Andrew hit the o/s/f of oiiles car if he didnt have room he would have hit the back of the car.
I agree that he should pay, but there's no need to justify the situation with a "the situation could have been avoided if the Fiesta hadn't etc".
Closing on a car approaching a corner THAT fast, you shouldn't expect anything to be a certainty.
As much as the "not paying" is racing, so is the chance of a racing incident.
11-04-2006, 03:51 PM
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Andy obviously started to swerve to avoid the impact when the fiesta initially moved hence the reason the wheel on the grass.
Just to put another bit of info in here...This was the LAST lap of the race and if the two front runners just lapped me i definitely would be checking to see if anyone else was coming.
Just to put another bit of info in here...This was the LAST lap of the race and if the two front runners just lapped me i definitely would be checking to see if anyone else was coming.
11-04-2006, 04:11 PM
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no one has full blame, from he video its still unclear,
the main problem is that the focus was going much faster then the fiesta,
when your overtaking/ lapping back markers its very dangerous and the faster car has to be carefull,
its when most contact happens, as the slower car would not exspect the focus to pass him from such a way off distance,
this will allways happen when cars of such vast speed difference are in the same race,
if someone was on the focus bumper i would exspect it, but if you just picking your way though slower cars its driver be ware,
had one of my cars damaged last year in ford saloons and the other car just drove into my door for no reason, this happens in racing,
only thing that pissed me off was the other driver did not evan bother to come over and say why he hit my car after the race,
if you can not afford to lose it dont race it, because on track its each to there own for damage,
mallory is not the best track as its very small and you will be lapping slower cars very fast,
the fiesta was very unlucky the way he got clipped just send he into a roll,
ashley bird last year had the same thing in the brands hatch final race of the season,
had slight contact and ended up rolling, end result car wrote off,
no ones fault just racing.
the main problem is that the focus was going much faster then the fiesta,
when your overtaking/ lapping back markers its very dangerous and the faster car has to be carefull,
its when most contact happens, as the slower car would not exspect the focus to pass him from such a way off distance,
this will allways happen when cars of such vast speed difference are in the same race,
if someone was on the focus bumper i would exspect it, but if you just picking your way though slower cars its driver be ware,
had one of my cars damaged last year in ford saloons and the other car just drove into my door for no reason, this happens in racing,
only thing that pissed me off was the other driver did not evan bother to come over and say why he hit my car after the race,
if you can not afford to lose it dont race it, because on track its each to there own for damage,
mallory is not the best track as its very small and you will be lapping slower cars very fast,
the fiesta was very unlucky the way he got clipped just send he into a roll,
ashley bird last year had the same thing in the brands hatch final race of the season,
had slight contact and ended up rolling, end result car wrote off,
no ones fault just racing.
11-04-2006, 05:00 PM
#70
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Originally Posted by andrewfgallacher
do you's think i should pay for the damage to the fiesta??
Who does that? Takes there car on a track and then wants money if it gets smashed up?
A chancer if you ask me!
11-04-2006, 05:22 PM
#71
Originally Posted by martinrs500labatts
no one has full blame, from he video its still unclear,
the main problem is that the focus was going much faster then the fiesta,
when your overtaking/ lapping back markers its very dangerous and the faster car has to be carefull,
its when most contact happens, as the slower car would not exspect the focus to pass him from such a way off distance,
this will allways happen when cars of such vast speed difference are in the same race,
if someone was on the focus bumper i would exspect it, but if you just picking your way though slower cars its driver be ware,
had one of my cars damaged last year in ford saloons and the other car just drove into my door for no reason, this happens in racing,
only thing that pissed me off was the other driver did not evan bother to come over and say why he hit my car after the race,
if you can not afford to lose it dont race it, because on track its each to there own for damage,
mallory is not the best track as its very small and you will be lapping slower cars very fast,
the fiesta was very unlucky the way he got clipped just send he into a roll,
ashley bird last year had the same thing in the brands hatch final race of the season,
had slight contact and ended up rolling, end result car wrote off,
no ones fault just racing.
the main problem is that the focus was going much faster then the fiesta,
when your overtaking/ lapping back markers its very dangerous and the faster car has to be carefull,
its when most contact happens, as the slower car would not exspect the focus to pass him from such a way off distance,
this will allways happen when cars of such vast speed difference are in the same race,
if someone was on the focus bumper i would exspect it, but if you just picking your way though slower cars its driver be ware,
had one of my cars damaged last year in ford saloons and the other car just drove into my door for no reason, this happens in racing,
only thing that pissed me off was the other driver did not evan bother to come over and say why he hit my car after the race,
if you can not afford to lose it dont race it, because on track its each to there own for damage,
mallory is not the best track as its very small and you will be lapping slower cars very fast,
the fiesta was very unlucky the way he got clipped just send he into a roll,
ashley bird last year had the same thing in the brands hatch final race of the season,
had slight contact and ended up rolling, end result car wrote off,
no ones fault just racing.
11-04-2006, 05:27 PM
#72
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Originally Posted by Redkop
Originally Posted by RichardPON
I've watched the vid many times over now, and if you pause it approximately where the Focus's front wheels are level with the Fiesta's rears, there's barely a car's width of racetrack available to the Focus. You can also see the Fiesta make the initial turn in just before the Focus approaches.
a] The white 3dr in front of them hadn't even begun to turn in to the hairpin or had just started to when the impact took place behind him.
b] Why was Ollie making the manouvre to turn into the hairpin so early and so sharply, he was a long way from it and the white 3dr.
c] You can still see the 3dr in the vid clip when the impact took place, so that shows how far from the hairpin Ollie was.
d] Was it the 3dr that had been shown the blue flag and Ollie assumed this was for him to pass it, so pulled over early to go inside it, as the 3dr was definitely staying out wide.
e] Was the blue flag being shown to Ollie to warn him that a faster car was behind and to move over?
Whatever way it is interpreted, Ollie should have looked in his mirrors before pulling out IMO and I don't think Andy can wholly be blamed for this.
at the end of the day tho its racing and to be excpected
11-04-2006, 05:50 PM
#73
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firstly the accident has happened and no amount of arguing or finger pointing is going to change whats happened!!
Whether you like the car or not you have to respect the fact that Ollie and his friends and family put alot of time and money into him winnig the overall championship last year and the same for the focus, a lot of hard work must have been put into building it, I know that for sure!
Racing is racing accidents happen and we all compete knowing that we may damage our cars and even write them off but it's a risk we take.
Maybe we shouldn't be blaming either driver and just accept accidents happen, thankfully no one was seriously hurt and thats the main thing, cars can be rebuilt over time!!
I was racing that day and the other thing that COULD have changed the out come is if the drivers had known they were on the last lap! did anyone see a last lap borad?
Andrew was catching Chris and Stuart but maybe if he'd know it was the last lap would he have bothered trying so hard especially as no one was on his bumper? The same for Ollie his actions may have been different if he knew we were on the last lap???
As for anyone paying for anything?!? I've raced karts for 10 years before, this my first season of circuit racing, and never would i pay for some one else's damage even if i knew i'd caused it, end of the day I'd have to pay for my damage on top!!!
Simon Green - #56 Class C
Whether you like the car or not you have to respect the fact that Ollie and his friends and family put alot of time and money into him winnig the overall championship last year and the same for the focus, a lot of hard work must have been put into building it, I know that for sure!
Racing is racing accidents happen and we all compete knowing that we may damage our cars and even write them off but it's a risk we take.
Maybe we shouldn't be blaming either driver and just accept accidents happen, thankfully no one was seriously hurt and thats the main thing, cars can be rebuilt over time!!
I was racing that day and the other thing that COULD have changed the out come is if the drivers had known they were on the last lap! did anyone see a last lap borad?
Andrew was catching Chris and Stuart but maybe if he'd know it was the last lap would he have bothered trying so hard especially as no one was on his bumper? The same for Ollie his actions may have been different if he knew we were on the last lap???
As for anyone paying for anything?!? I've raced karts for 10 years before, this my first season of circuit racing, and never would i pay for some one else's damage even if i knew i'd caused it, end of the day I'd have to pay for my damage on top!!!
Simon Green - #56 Class C
11-04-2006, 06:37 PM
#76
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Originally Posted by Greeny
firstly the accident has happened and no amount of arguing or finger pointing is going to change whats happened!!
Whether you like the car or not you have to respect the fact that Ollie and his friends and family put alot of time and money into him winnig the overall championship last year and the same for the focus, a lot of hard work must have been put into building it, I know that for sure!
Racing is racing accidents happen and we all compete knowing that we may damage our cars and even write them off but it's a risk we take.
Maybe we shouldn't be blaming either driver and just accept accidents happen, thankfully no one was seriously hurt and thats the main thing, cars can be rebuilt over time!!
thats another point i had back off a bit mid race cause i thought i had no chance of catching chris and stu the i noticed i was so i started going for it again if i knew it was the last lap i would of backed off
I was racing that day and the other thing that COULD have changed the out come is if the drivers had known they were on the last lap! did anyone see a last lap borad?
Andrew was catching Chris and Stuart but maybe if he'd know it was the last lap would he have bothered trying so hard especially as no one was on his bumper? The same for Ollie his actions may have been different if he knew we were on the last lap???
As for anyone paying for anything?!? I've raced karts for 10 years before, this my first season of circuit racing, and never would i pay for some one else's damage even if i knew i'd caused it, end of the day I'd have to pay for my damage on top!!!
Simon Green - #56 Class C
Whether you like the car or not you have to respect the fact that Ollie and his friends and family put alot of time and money into him winnig the overall championship last year and the same for the focus, a lot of hard work must have been put into building it, I know that for sure!
Racing is racing accidents happen and we all compete knowing that we may damage our cars and even write them off but it's a risk we take.
Maybe we shouldn't be blaming either driver and just accept accidents happen, thankfully no one was seriously hurt and thats the main thing, cars can be rebuilt over time!!
thats another point i had back off a bit mid race cause i thought i had no chance of catching chris and stu the i noticed i was so i started going for it again if i knew it was the last lap i would of backed off
I was racing that day and the other thing that COULD have changed the out come is if the drivers had known they were on the last lap! did anyone see a last lap borad?
Andrew was catching Chris and Stuart but maybe if he'd know it was the last lap would he have bothered trying so hard especially as no one was on his bumper? The same for Ollie his actions may have been different if he knew we were on the last lap???
As for anyone paying for anything?!? I've raced karts for 10 years before, this my first season of circuit racing, and never would i pay for some one else's damage even if i knew i'd caused it, end of the day I'd have to pay for my damage on top!!!
Simon Green - #56 Class C
11-04-2006, 07:04 PM
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Can you imagine the outcry if all those competing at a BTCC meeting claimed off other drivers when they get shoved off?
It was a racing incident, no more no less and no-one should have to pay for damage to another car.
It was a racing incident, no more no less and no-one should have to pay for damage to another car.
12-04-2006, 11:53 PM
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mmmm think the fiesta fell off the trailer on the way home!!!
http://www.greylizard.net/images/fiestaxr2/smash2.jpg
http://www.greylizard.net/images/fiestaxr2/smash2.jpg