AustenW

Honda Accord 2.4L V Tec Engine could be the answer for the 4cyl solution

sunny

iTrader: (1)

Chill fella's, I am not saying that they're all bull$hitters.....next time I will not add my 2 cents of personal experience.

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

The 1200bhp Ecotec drag engine and almost all of the 1000bhp + 4 cylinder drag engines .

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Austen,
Depends on the bore and stroke. I like the sound of the S2000 engine that must have a good bore and stroke as it revs to 8500 in standard format .

Stavros

Guess so, but dunno why you keep on about it.
Wouldnt stop them still being the best n strongest 4cyls, even at less power.
And the thread starter didnt mention reliability

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Then it's a stupid question unless you're comparing like for like .

AustenW

Forget reliability once you start getting above 500bhp its in the hands of the gods anyway as anything could let go.

Totally off thread.

Just wanted to know how much power is capable of extracting out of a 4 cyl, 5cyl and 6 cyl and what type of engines they are out of?


The Honda S2000 4cyl looks top of the list at the moment

The Audi 5cyl 20v looks front runner upto now

What about the 6 cyl??

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

What are you aiming to put it in, as an iron blocked six cylinder would cause weight and packaging issues?

I'd like to see an alloy blocked Volvo 5-cylinder engine, as this would have the valve area for good flow, and being inline and small enough would be a great little engine if it had good rod angles . Would sound the tits .

Stavros

Why S2000? What power they had out of em? 1000+?

BMW Turbo F1 cars were 4cyl at first, and was well over 1000bhp.

And Vauxhall EcoTecs have been pushed to well over 1000bhp.

As have Mitsu 4G63s.

6cyl, well, like said, 1400bhp or so has been had from RB26 and 2JZ engines a good few times.

And the 6cyl BMW engine from the older M5s im sure is just as capable.

AustenW

How about a Nissan 4 Cyl?


http://www.engdev.com/index2.htm

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

He's obviously thinking about putting it in a road car, so STOP quoting drag engine power .

Anonymous

BMW 2002 engine


1500cc in the right format
Good for 1400bhp, and reliable to thrash non stop for 2-3 hours at a time.



Or is that just a drag engine too Mike?

Anonymous

They run 7 seconds @ 180mph


You think that doing 0-180mph in 7 seconds doesnt take big power?

Thats as quick as Rods car gets to 100mph!

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Like it better than a drag engine - just make sure that you find a correctly "seasoned" block . Although cooling may be an issue in a Westfield .

AustenW

I'm possibly looking at doing a road legal Le Mans style RWD turbo project with a friend for hill climbing and sprinting.

Looking at the alternatives at the moment, this threads not really related though to be honest.

Thought about some of the all alloy Audi V8's but would prefer somthing a little smaller and lighter.

The Powertec V8 Hyabusa dirived engine is the nuts, 2.6 and 360bhp plus in normally aspirated but at Ł17k + I'll give it a miss until I win the lottery.

Once turbo'd that engine will be the one to have.

For this thread though best keep it to Road going engines from the large manufacturers.

Anyone much experience with Alfa's, Lancia's etc?

Anonymous

For that sort of application, i reckon an ITR engine would be a good bet, IF its mid mounted?

Dont try one on a cossie box though, they spin the wrong way, LOL

sunny

iTrader: (1)

Ok thanks for telling me afterwards that it runs 180mph terminal, you only quoted 7 secs et. I simply posted my experience of most of the people I have talked to out there NOT every pro et drag racer!!!!

Anonymous

TBH i would have thought it was obvious that it must be running MASSIVE terminals on those times.

1/4 of a mile in 7 seconds = 1 mile in 28 seconds = AVERAGE speed of OVER 120mph

So its got to be obvious so anyone that no matter how quick it gets off the line its going to be runnin absolutely monstrous terminal speeds.

sunny

iTrader: (1)

Chip read my posts mate, I never said that your example of 7 sec fwd pro et drag racer wasn't running high terminals and mega power. All I said was that the majority of people that I have talked to in the States have come across with horse power figures that don't tally up to the spec they talk about......also these people are not all pro et drag racers (totally diffierent community of people).

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Not to Sunny, he's MAD .

Anonymous

PMSL @ Mike


Yeah Sunny, we're team mates man

Anonymous

I see more bullshit this side of the pond than the other.

But yes i see what you are saying, there are bullshitters everywhere really, no nation has a monopoly on them, but with our saxo boys with their resistor mods, i fear the UK has a larger than average market share

sunny

iTrader: (1)

There's bull$hit everywhere mate. However when you come across a community of people in the States who genuinely have decent powered and built engines they spoil it by OVER OVER exagerating their claims. Also when they say the word 'dyno' they mean rolling road. This is pointed to the road legal (or as they would put it 'Streetable') community. I have much respect for the pro et drag racers out there. Some of them I know a bit more personally ie Shaun Carlson and Kenny Tram. I hear a certain Lisa Kubo is also breaking ground in the world of Pro FWD drag racing. These people deserve respect but as for the rest of the community of US chavs......it's all bull$h!t!

Anonymous

and breathe..............

RS500

Here a few of my favorite engines.
Cosworth yb
2jz-gte(supra twin turbo)
suzuki hayabusa engine
and the engine from the kawa zx12r
yamaha r1 engine
mitsubishi 4g63
bmw m series engine
dodge viper/srt 10 engine
dodge srt-4
audi rs4-rs6
rb26 dett/rb 30 dett
mazda rx7 13b 20 b 26 b
Any recent porsche turbo engine like found in the 993 turbo 993 gt2 and the 996 turbo and 996 gt2.
all saab petrol turbo engines like the saab 2 liter engine 16 engine.
Ford modular 32 valve found the supercharged ford mustang cobra.

the list is endless.

AustenW

What sort of head flow can you get out of a VW / Audi 1.8T engine?

Being 5 Valves per cylinder it should flow very well.

There are methods of taking this engine upto and over 2 L if you swap cranks about etc. but not exactly sure how its done.

Has anyone looked into converting a Diesel engine over to Petrol, using the block, crank, head and sump as donars?



If you were going to extremes it would be a good route to take as the blocks and cranks are designed to take high levels of compression and torque and the heads might prove to flow very well.

A friend is thinking about converting one of the new VW 2.0L 16V Tdi Diesels to petrol

Stavros

Can be done, seen it done, but usually only good if the petrol equivalent is a bit weak.

Nissan RD28 diesel engines in some Nissan Patrols are part of the RB Skyline engine family, and the bottomend can be used with RB heads to make a decent 2.8 engine if you want.
But most dont bother as RB30 blocks are just as strong and 3litre, and RB26 blocks are silly strong, and 2.6.

Audi 5cyl engines have a diesel varient used in Volvos IIRC, and im sure there loads more to.

Porkie

iTrader: (1)

Interesting read steve

AustenW

Been looking into the VW / Audi 1.8T engine

It has 5 valves per cylinder so should flow loads of air, and you can interchange blocks & cranks etc throughout the VW/Audi range to make a 2.2 20v turbo which a diesel block which should be bullet proof.

Certainly the way forward me thinks

Does anyone know which code engine has the best head for flow once ported?

cupra20vt

AGU rings a bell. From what i remember.

Load's of good stuff about these engine's over here
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zeroforum?id=27
Take a look in the hybrid's forum aswell.

Rick

What about the cosworth 6 cylinder that was put in an audi as a demo car, but never actually got used in anything?

Cossiebros

I also know of a Focus in the states, duratec and FWD. running low 8 sec's. Something like 1000bhp.

don't remember where i saw i though

xr-stu

it all depends on how much money, knowledge and time youve got to throw at an engine really doesnt it?!

saying that the internals are free to be changed is throwing it wide open really, with the right bore/stroke ratio, proper components, whatever modification needed to the block to make it strong enough (cue rods block as an example of what i mean) then youre typical 16v head can be worked and ports reshaped to whatever design you want, whatever shape/size combustion chamber etc etc.... could run any cam profiles you wanted....

basiclly my point is with enough money you could make any two engine with the same layout vertually EXACTLY the same in terms of what the head will flow and what itll rev like/max revs. so this discussion is a bit pointless isnt it?!


just my 2 cents. *cue flaming*

AustenW

Not really

Whatever engine you use whether if its a Zetec, YB, 1.8T, Honda etc. they all have a limit of how much power they can produce.

This is all down to how the head was designed at the factory and how much air it can flow.

The better the head design the more horse power is achievable, (all things being equal).

All other factors such as inlet design, turbo size etc. are all variables which can be changed or altered to suit any engine you use regardless.

At the end of the day you cannot change your displacement (CC's), or your head flow. (some heads flow better than others when ported).

You could spend 20k on a Cossie YB engine and get 750 bhp, spend 20k on a Honda S2000 engine and you'll get more like 1000bhp

Thats the point i'm trying to make.

xr-stu

the point im making is that you could get the best production engine ever built (whatever it may be) and get 'XXXX'bhp from it. you could then get another engine with the same layout (4cyl, 16v, similar combustion chamber design - ie hemispherical etc etc) and then totally reengineer the engine, and more relevantly the head, to the exact same dimensions/design and have the exact same flow characteristics. you might start off with a shit head, but with enough money you could have a mofified casting produced which would allow the ports to be reshaped and enlarged further etc etc etc.

my point is that the ultimate limit of what can be done, and the power that can be made with say a 2000cc, 4 cyl, 16v engine is so high, it wouldnt matter what you started off with, with enough money and resources youd get to the same power figure with no matter what engine you started with, they could all be changed enough to do the same thing.

see my point?

if you put a limit on what could be done with the engine, for instance standard ports, standard block and standard crank dimensions....THEN you could say 'X' engine is better than 'Y' engine.....

AustenW

Point taken.

For this post I'm going along the lines of keeping the production head and block and binning everything else.

Take a look at www.cncheads.co.uk

You will see from the graphs that there are 3 types of Zetec head casting they have flowed to the max.

The silver top head makes about 145 CFM
The black top Focus head makes 160 CFM
The Focus ST170 Zetec head makes over 180 CFM

This is the point I am trying to make.

The ST170 engine will ultimately make more horsepower power than the other heads at the same boost all things being equal

In reality you could have a custom head and block manufactured but the cost would be so high you would be better buying a special 4 cylinder engine like a Millington or a Hart for Ł20k

xr-stu

you seen that video on streetfire of a bloke in america whose built a 4cylinder 16v lump for drag racing from SCRATCH! 4.8 litre iirc, cant remember much about it but it ran on an alcahol/ethanol mix and they were reconing itd produce around 4000bhp.

THATS the limit!

ill have a hunt for it and see if i can find it, its pretty interesting stuff!

JHS

iTrader: (1)

Have you looked at the Honda Integra Type R b18 engine, or the K20 from the Civic Type R? S2000 F series engine is a good one though.
Have a look at www.full-race.com for Honda turbo kits

AustenW

Porsche 944 S2 (1988) and 968 CS (1993) engine

3 litre 4 cylinder 16 valve

All alloy block and head with a steel crank

http://www.porsche968uk.co.uk/

Good base to turbo perhaps?