Wasted spark v Refurbished original
31-05-2011, 04:03 AM
#41
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Technology moves on, why are we driving around on radial tyres not cross-plys? There is a FAR better solution to producing a spark than the humble old dizzy now, the amount of people on this thread alone singing it's praises tells a story!
There will always be the haters, leave them to thier trusty 8 track players!
There will always be the haters, leave them to thier trusty 8 track players!
Last edited by RWD_cossie_wil; 31-05-2011 at 04:08 AM.
31-05-2011, 05:18 AM
#42
Too many posts.. I need a life!!
I often wonder how all the old style modded cosworths were fired?,remember the famous Turbosystems sierras?,GGR modded cosworths,BBR's various creations,Collins etc,etc.
I seem to remember that Tony Mannock's sierras were spitting out at least 500+brake as were Collins,BBR and the rest,surely it'd be misfire city 'cos youd need at least 1.8/2.0Bar of boost to produce that kind of power but i don't remember any magazine tests complaining about missfires though.
I seem to remember that Tony Mannock's sierras were spitting out at least 500+brake as were Collins,BBR and the rest,surely it'd be misfire city 'cos youd need at least 1.8/2.0Bar of boost to produce that kind of power but i don't remember any magazine tests complaining about missfires though.
31-05-2011, 06:19 AM
#43
(Assuming correct installation of course)
31-05-2011, 06:30 AM
#44
I often wonder how all the old style modded cosworths were fired?,remember the famous Turbosystems sierras?,GGR modded cosworths,BBR's various creations,Collins etc,etc.
I seem to remember that Tony Mannock's sierras were spitting out at least 500+brake as were Collins,BBR and the rest,surely it'd be misfire city 'cos youd need at least 1.8/2.0Bar of boost to produce that kind of power but i don't remember any magazine tests complaining about misfires though.
I seem to remember that Tony Mannock's sierras were spitting out at least 500+brake as were Collins,BBR and the rest,surely it'd be misfire city 'cos youd need at least 1.8/2.0Bar of boost to produce that kind of power but i don't remember any magazine tests complaining about misfires though.
As mentioned earlier, the standard system CAN be made to work at that sort of power no problem, but as with anything else, its a compromise and results in less efficient combustion and high hydrocarbons on boost.
The standard ignition system needs the plug gaps dropping so low that it compromises efficiency significantly if you run anything over about 300bhp as the cylinder pressures are so high that the standard voltage ignition system cannot jump the gap specified by Cosworth anymore.
Consider this for a moment. Cosworth (Who know a little about fast cars) designed this engine to work with a 0.75mm spark plug gap. Most of you guys on normal ignition system are now running 0.65mm or less.
(Some big power cars need 0.5mm)
Why do you guys think you know better than Cosworth?
They could easily have specified 0.6mm and made the spark plugs last almost twice as long or longer between changes. So why didn't they?
In fact, spare a moment to consider why no manufacturer in the history of automotive engineering EVER recommended spark plug gaps so small? Instead they have all spent billions of ££s trying to make the gaps even bigger with wasted spark, and now coil on plug etc, with many gaps up at 1.5mm now and change intervals at 30'000 miles.
If only BMW & Porsche engineers came on PassionFord, they would have realised years ago that they could have just hit the spark plugs with a hammer to close the gap down before fiment and saved themselves billions!
Last edited by Stu @ M Developments; 31-05-2011 at 06:41 AM.
01-06-2011, 11:06 AM
#48
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Most breakdowns are ignition related! If you can improve on a old design which benefits your car and your pocket in the long run, its one mod to start with! Think its time stu does another discount offer, on the ws system though
05-07-2011, 03:39 PM
#50
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08-07-2011, 12:45 AM
#65
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I have what look like the right ht leads that you have in the ws adverts in the magazines. How much for it all with out the ht leads stu? I am considering getting ws too now after reading this thread. Or are the ws ht leads slightly different? cheeRS
Last edited by kosienutter; 08-07-2011 at 12:59 AM.
08-07-2011, 01:20 AM
#66
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08-07-2011, 08:43 AM
#68
08-07-2011, 10:54 AM
#70
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Hi mate,
The parts can all be bought individually from my webshop here.
The parts can all be bought individually from my webshop here.
Last edited by kosienutter; 08-07-2011 at 11:15 AM.
08-07-2011, 11:15 AM
#72
Last Time, Get Off PF FFS
Also, (sorry question after question here), with me not being a pf gold member can I still put myself down for the group buy if I am in time.
Thanks Stu.
12-07-2011, 07:23 AM
#73
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Question for Stu....
Been reading the wasted spark debate.....
Now my engine is standard (as it came from the factory). It runs reasonably (it is 18 yrs old). Is a WS kit really gonna make a difference to MPG? I'm not after speed or performance (I'm on a budget), but I could really do with getting more than 18p per mile - 350 miles on 48 litres.
Been reading the wasted spark debate.....
Now my engine is standard (as it came from the factory). It runs reasonably (it is 18 yrs old). Is a WS kit really gonna make a difference to MPG? I'm not after speed or performance (I'm on a budget), but I could really do with getting more than 18p per mile - 350 miles on 48 litres.
12-07-2011, 08:07 AM
#74
Question for Stu....
Been reading the wasted spark debate.....
Now my engine is standard (as it came from the factory). It runs reasonably (it is 18 yrs old). Is a WS kit really gonna make a difference to MPG? I'm not after speed or performance (I'm on a budget), but I could really do with getting more than 18p per mile - 350 miles on 48 litres.
Been reading the wasted spark debate.....
Now my engine is standard (as it came from the factory). It runs reasonably (it is 18 yrs old). Is a WS kit really gonna make a difference to MPG? I'm not after speed or performance (I'm on a budget), but I could really do with getting more than 18p per mile - 350 miles on 48 litres.
12-07-2011, 08:58 AM
#75
I have had both ws and std on 330hp and 400hp cars used hard on both road and on track .IMO-
WS is good if you run man boost(30psi+) and have a car with an aftermarket dash ,
BUT if you have a nice road car with the std clocks and say stg 3, a group A coil is fine and less hassle tbh.
WS makes you eat through plugs, so you find yourself with more misfires as the plugs die .Compared to a Group A coil with with the right plug gap and healthy leads which rarely misfire in my experence. Plus you have to bugger about trying to get the rev counter to read right , or spend £150+ on an aftermarket item.
My 3dr t34.48/greens, 25psi, grp A coil, in 1000miles including a track day = 0 misfires .
My saff t34.63/greys, 30psi, WS , £200 stack rev counter , in 1000miles including a track day = 2 misfires (as it went through two sets of spark plugs)
WS is good if you run man boost(30psi+) and have a car with an aftermarket dash ,
BUT if you have a nice road car with the std clocks and say stg 3, a group A coil is fine and less hassle tbh.
WS makes you eat through plugs, so you find yourself with more misfires as the plugs die .Compared to a Group A coil with with the right plug gap and healthy leads which rarely misfire in my experence. Plus you have to bugger about trying to get the rev counter to read right , or spend £150+ on an aftermarket item.
My 3dr t34.48/greens, 25psi, grp A coil, in 1000miles including a track day = 0 misfires .
My saff t34.63/greys, 30psi, WS , £200 stack rev counter , in 1000miles including a track day = 2 misfires (as it went through two sets of spark plugs)
02-10-2011, 01:27 PM
#77
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I have had both ws and std on 330hp and 400hp cars used hard on both road and on track .IMO-
WS is good if you run man boost(30psi+) and have a car with an aftermarket dash ,
BUT if you have a nice road car with the std clocks and say stg 3, a group A coil is fine and less hassle tbh.
WS makes you eat through plugs, so you find yourself with more misfires as the plugs die .Compared to a Group A coil with with the right plug gap and healthy leads which rarely misfire in my experence. Plus you have to bugger about trying to get the rev counter to read right , or spend £150+ on an aftermarket item.
My 3dr t34.48/greens, 25psi, grp A coil, in 1000miles including a track day = 0 misfires .
My saff t34.63/greys, 30psi, WS , £200 stack rev counter , in 1000miles including a track day = 2 misfires (as it went through two sets of spark plugs)
WS is good if you run man boost(30psi+) and have a car with an aftermarket dash ,
BUT if you have a nice road car with the std clocks and say stg 3, a group A coil is fine and less hassle tbh.
WS makes you eat through plugs, so you find yourself with more misfires as the plugs die .Compared to a Group A coil with with the right plug gap and healthy leads which rarely misfire in my experence. Plus you have to bugger about trying to get the rev counter to read right , or spend £150+ on an aftermarket item.
My 3dr t34.48/greens, 25psi, grp A coil, in 1000miles including a track day = 0 misfires .
My saff t34.63/greys, 30psi, WS , £200 stack rev counter , in 1000miles including a track day = 2 misfires (as it went through two sets of spark plugs)
15-05-2012, 05:40 PM
#78
Why do you always jump on ANY topic about ANYTHING my company produce and try to slag it off? Its becoming really tiring now mate. 
To answer your point:
The standard system needs plug gaps dropping so low that it compromises efficiency if you run anything over about 300bhp as the cylinder pressures are so high teh standard voltage system cannot jump the gap.
Think about that mate... we had to drop the manufacturers gap down to make teh system work AT ALL. Are youn sure it was up to the job?
Your millions of standard cars example is also more than a bit pathetic, show me millions of 300bhp + 2 litre 4 cylinder cars running fine with a distributor cap please.
Why do you think ZERO manufacturers have produced a car without WS or coil on plug for, what, 20 years? Longer?
Why do you think at Santa Pod the only cars you ever hear missfiring embarassingly up the drag strip are the old high power Cosworths?
Why not GT4's, Scoobys, GTO'S, Golf GTi's and Lancers of the Same Era?
I have stated my case as to why WS is better, so please tell us why I am wrong.
As for Ignition amplifiers being a common failure point, your wrong, no they are not. I think I have fitted about 25 in the last 15 years.
I suppose your going to tell us all that you have a GT35 running with a distributor cap and rotor arm with 0.75mm plug gaps arent you?
To answer your point:
The standard system needs plug gaps dropping so low that it compromises efficiency if you run anything over about 300bhp as the cylinder pressures are so high teh standard voltage system cannot jump the gap.
Think about that mate... we had to drop the manufacturers gap down to make teh system work AT ALL. Are youn sure it was up to the job?
Your millions of standard cars example is also more than a bit pathetic, show me millions of 300bhp + 2 litre 4 cylinder cars running fine with a distributor cap please.
Why do you think ZERO manufacturers have produced a car without WS or coil on plug for, what, 20 years? Longer?
Why do you think at Santa Pod the only cars you ever hear missfiring embarassingly up the drag strip are the old high power Cosworths?
Why not GT4's, Scoobys, GTO'S, Golf GTi's and Lancers of the Same Era?
I have stated my case as to why WS is better, so please tell us why I am wrong.
As for Ignition amplifiers being a common failure point, your wrong, no they are not. I think I have fitted about 25 in the last 15 years.
I suppose your going to tell us all that you have a GT35 running with a distributor cap and rotor arm with 0.75mm plug gaps arent you?
I used to use distributed and for a while it was ok but plug gaps needed to be at .4 which is plain shit resulted in crap idle shit mpg wasted spark all the way my kit from msd is perfect and I think the price is reasonable considering development etc it gives such better performance in my opinion it's a must for any modified Cossie
15-05-2012, 06:16 PM
#79
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+1. Not around town but more mpg on long runs Definetly. Best mod I have done.
I feel more confident too in reving the car now with out worrying if it'll miss a little. Just doesn't, and the power delivery and smoothness. Need I say more
I feel more confident too in reving the car now with out worrying if it'll miss a little. Just doesn't, and the power delivery and smoothness. Need I say more
