ThomasV

I am currenly restoring a 2WD crystal blue Sierra which I have owned for about 4 months now.
When taking it to pass the MOT a few days ago, the technician noticed that the VIN number located in the bottom under the passenger seat have been cut out and welded in again. Most likely due to a repair sometime in the past.

Here in Denmark, the MOT will not pass when this has happened without written approval from the MOT BEFORE reparing the VIN number area and since it is not me or the previous owner that has perfomed the repair, we don't have any form of proof or written authorization to perform the repair.
They now require me to be able to PROVE, that this Shell is an original SIERRA COSWORTH 2WD shell and not an ordinary Sierra Sedan Shell which has gotten a Cossie conversion. They suspect that the shell is just an ordinary Sierra which has gotten a VIN number from a Cosworth and then all the parts and engine fitted.

Is there any way to tell the difference on the shell between an ordinary Sierra and a Cossie without the VIN numbers ?
The MOT people will not accept the one in the front of the engine bay alone ... both have to be in perfect condition and un-touched or it will fail.

Turbosimpsons

iTrader: (3)

sounds like it's either been re-shelled or it's a ringer. i think the shells are the same as far as i know.

ThomasV

We also suspect that is has been re-shelled which is fine by me, but without the written autohorization, I will never be able to get on the road, since the MOT will not pass it.

Only way out of this is to either prove that the shell IS a Cossie or pay the import tax on the car which is approx 4.000£ !! ...
So ... hoping to be able to prove that this is, in fact, a real Cossie and not a Sierra Ghia with a Cossie conversion.

YOREVOL

i assume your talking about sapphire cosworth.
the car is based on a ghia so i assume its a ghia shell. but i have been told that it will have an autobox tunnel fitted to clear t5 box.
hope this helps.

ThomasV

Yes, its a Sierra Sapphire 2WD in crystal blue from '88.

Well ... that is definatly a step in the right direction, but the MOT people will probably just claim, that is is possible that the shell is from a Sierra Ghia with auto-tranny which then got a cossie conversion.

nicksaph

are you not able to clean up the welded up area and under seal it to pass the mot?

ThomasV

Problem is ... that whoever did the operation didn't do it very well. He was definately NOT trying to hide it. It can be easily be seen when you open the little plastic lid and in the bottom of the car, you can easily see the weldings from under the car as well. It IS done right, but not particularly pretty.

I guess it might be possible to cut it out again and the do the job better and more detailed. Maybe the MOT hall won't notice it ... but it's a definate maybe.
But ... I don't think so ... the welded area is only about 10x30cm ... so only a little bit bigger than the actual VIN plate, so it will be make it look better from top, when you open the plastic lid.

martysmartie

iTrader: (1)

The shells are exactly the same, the Cosworth had the skirts added, different front bumper etc but that aside there is no difference, hate to say it but that is a classic ringing technique, I.E cut the VIN from a bad Cosworth and reshell it welding the VIN in the process, it could of course be genuine like in the instance they are saying.

Apparently there is supposted to be extra sound deadning in the Cosworth as well but never seen it myself.

Under the bonnet look at the plate on the slam panel to see if it's been interferred with, also if 2WD as the "Type" designation on this badge , you should be seeing "BFGC not sure if 4x4 will be the same, also check and see if the chassis number tallys here as well"

Martin

chrisa3

iTrader: (1)

Not that it would prove anything, but the boot lids are different on cosworths and standard sierras. The Cosworth had a reinforcement pad inside the boot lid directly under the centre support for the boot spoiler (or so i was told). Mine has this, but one of my other cossies which had a replacement boot lid, did not. Its there to add strength for the addition of the boot spoiler.

saff 24v

when your not bothered about the plate been changed and all that why dont you just polish up the welds clean it down and go to a different mot centre

ThomasV

@Martysmartie .... The plate on the slam panel is fine and seems untouched. So no problem there.

@Chrisa3
I have given the car new front doors, new bonnet, new boot lid (org.cossie) new rear panels and new front panels, as well ... it has been restored and all rust has been fixed. I have event had the car painted again in original Crystal Blue with 2 ekstra layers of clear-coat.

tabetha

The shell is 100% identical to a sierra sapphire 2wd shell, ie all the same, the 4wd sierra is slightly different as it is strengthened in certain places, most notably thicker bulkhead.
They were based on the ghia as that had more features.
Good luck with the problem.
tabetha

ThomasV

Well ... then I guess my only option is the try to polish and fix the "problem" and hope for the best.

Thanks to everyone for the help. Much appreciated!

turbofreak

hi thomas
why dont you go to your local ford dealer and ask for a written approval from ford because you cant read your chassis number then you have permission to put the numbers in and you have an approval paper for your mot from ford.thats the way we need to do it here in belgium

cheeRS

ThomasV

Hi Mate,

Believe me, if it was that simple here in Denmark ... I would.
In Denmark the permission needs to come from directly from the MOT hall ... no one else can give the proper authorization. Not the police, not FORD, not even the TAX office which usually are quite involved in everything regarding cars and rebuilds.
If the moron who did the work on the car had just gotten the correct permission, I wouldn't be in this mess..... but no reason to cry about it now.

Thanks for your input, though!

opposite lock

iTrader: (3)

I,m suprised to read the sapphire cosworths 2wd are the same , i,ve always thought they had an SVE approval with strengthening/stiffening of the chassis
Ya learn something everyday

2wd

Sorry to jump the thread ... but about the difference from a 2wd Sapp to a 4wd Sapp ... where can I find some info and pic's of this ... also someone tells me that the boot in a 4wd Sapp has a difference compared to a 2wd Sapp

martysmartie

iTrader: (1)

Nope exactly the same, in actual fact they were originally going to be based around LS trim, but it was then decided it would be Ghia to fit in with the executive target market, the Saph is stonger than the 3DR shell right out of the box which was an added benefit!

As said 4x4's have strengthening in the front wings etc due to the transmission stress.

Martin

martysmartie

iTrader: (1)

It's just additional strengthening up front, so far as I know the boot is no different, would be no reason so far as I can think as theres nothing different at the back, it's just at the front you have additional stress from the transmission.

Unless of course you mean the remote release of the boot lid itself which 4x4 has?

Martin

2wd

he he ...must be what he means ..

Glenn_

iTrader: (1)

Did the 2wd saffs have the cut outs in the front chassic legs for the front prop shafts?

martysmartie

iTrader: (1)

Not so far as I know that was just the 4x4's.

Martin

olek

the 4x4 ones have cutouts to the front driveshafts in the front chassis legs, different/bigger gearbox-tunnel for the 4x4-box, and strenghtening-plates in the rear turrets.

at least from what i have seen here in norway...

swoosh500

The 4x4 has definetly got rear strengthening plates on the boot floor to shock towers, these parts were available from ford a few years ago.
As said the tunnel is different for the 4x4 gearbox, and apart from that this is the only difference from the 2wd to 4x4 shells.
Regarding a normal 2wd shell to a cossie shell these are the same, but if you have a late model 2wd ordinary shell they will have the inner arched 4x4 cut outs in the leg, just need to cut the outer skin to reveal this.
I bought a few new shells years ago, 1.8 and these were 2wd and 92 models, these were fitted with the cut outs for the 4x4 and also the boot floor strenthening plates.
Hopr this helps.
Johnny..