Need 205 block facts
11-11-2010, 07:18 PM
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Need 205 block facts
What are the differences between 205 cosworth blocks and other 205 blocks? Could one for example take a sierra 2,0 GT 205 block and rebuild it with cosworth pistons, head etc. etc. and would it be ok for 350 bhp with the right specs?
11-11-2010, 07:26 PM
#2
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The cossie YB 205 block was 100% standard blocks taken from the pinto 205 block production line, they were picked for being microscopically smaller bores, so cylinder walls were microscopically thicker.
In real terms makes zero difference, any 205 block that's healthy will take this power without breaking a sweat or having any problems.
tabetha
In real terms makes zero difference, any 205 block that's healthy will take this power without breaking a sweat or having any problems.
tabetha
11-11-2010, 08:25 PM
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The cossie YB 205 block was 100% standard blocks taken from the pinto 205 block production line, they were picked for being microscopically smaller bores, so cylinder walls were microscopically thicker.
In real terms makes zero difference, any 205 block that's healthy will take this power without breaking a sweat or having any problems.
tabetha
In real terms makes zero difference, any 205 block that's healthy will take this power without breaking a sweat or having any problems.
tabetha
The only problem is that many people says that the 205 block taken from a cosworth are alot stronger and has several small differences compared to a standard sierra 205 block. I have heard so many different opinions about this now so i really dont know what to believe...
Is this something you have personal experience with tabetha, and therefore can say as a fact? (Not to sound cocky or anything
)
11-11-2010, 10:29 PM
#4
Yes can 100% back up what his said there are four numbers stamped by the dizzy, Cosworth asked for only grades 2 and 3 (Bore tolerances as explained above) to be delivered to them, once you rebore these numbers become totally irrelevant anyway.
The only other difference being is that 'Cosworth' blocks have YB then a four digit number stamped on the front, that and the above aside there is no difference.
Whoever told you such have told you wrong and obviously don't know what there talking about
There is however a 200 block which was fitted to the 4x4/Escos this was stronger and also the YBD (RS500 had a stonger block named 205, this is NOT the same as a Pinto block)
Now the trivia, 20 means 2 litres displacement and the 5 was appened from 1985 when the block was revised before this the blocks were simply called 20.
Martin
The only other difference being is that 'Cosworth' blocks have YB then a four digit number stamped on the front, that and the above aside there is no difference.
Whoever told you such have told you wrong and obviously don't know what there talking about
There is however a 200 block which was fitted to the 4x4/Escos this was stronger and also the YBD (RS500 had a stonger block named 205, this is NOT the same as a Pinto block)
Now the trivia, 20 means 2 litres displacement and the 5 was appened from 1985 when the block was revised before this the blocks were simply called 20.
Martin
12-11-2010, 06:15 AM
#5
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That was exactly what i hoped to hear. If the slightly smaller bore is the only difference it really doesnt matter anyhow, course i wil get it +0,5mm oversized in bore when i rebuild it.
The only problem is that many people says that the 205 block taken from a cosworth are alot stronger and has several small differences compared to a standard sierra 205 block. I have heard so many different opinions about this now so i really dont know what to believe...
Is this something you have personal experience with tabetha, and therefore can say as a fact? (Not to sound cocky or anything)
The only problem is that many people says that the 205 block taken from a cosworth are alot stronger and has several small differences compared to a standard sierra 205 block. I have heard so many different opinions about this now so i really dont know what to believe...
Is this something you have personal experience with tabetha, and therefore can say as a fact? (Not to sound cocky or anything
)Yes plenty of personal experience with pinto's, in fact my 2nd favourite engine behind the x flow.
I can assure you there are many many 205's running 450+ bhp on rebored blocks, but I can also assure you I have seen "famous name" engine builders bore blocks WITHOUT a deck/stress plate, if this is done the bore is scrap, as the 205 and 200 block wobble more than jelly when being bored.
My own YB 205 has just had it's rebuild at 200,973 miles(320,000 k's) and is still on the std size crank journals both big ends and mains, and still uses the 200,000 mile old thrust bearings, and is still within NEW tolerance on these at 4 thou thrust.
Even with this mileage emissions were 0.97% CO and 137ppm, but this was on a emerald K3 after market ecu, didn't even come close to that on the L6, even after set up, I REFUSE to run closed loop, mainly because for non cat engines it's seriously not needed and is in my opinion a con, a very expensive one at that, correct mapping doesn't need it.
tabetha
12-11-2010, 08:36 AM
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Hi,
Yes plenty of personal experience with pinto's, in fact my 2nd favourite engine behind the x flow.
I can assure you there are many many 205's running 450+ bhp on rebored blocks, but I can also assure you I have seen "famous name" engine builders bore blocks WITHOUT a deck/stress plate, if this is done the bore is scrap, as the 205 and 200 block wobble more than jelly when being bored.
My own YB 205 has just had it's rebuild at 200,973 miles(320,000 k's) and is still on the std size crank journals both big ends and mains, and still uses the 200,000 mile old thrust bearings, and is still within NEW tolerance on these at 4 thou thrust.
Even with this mileage emissions were 0.97% CO and 137ppm, but this was on a emerald K3 after market ecu, didn't even come close to that on the L6, even after set up, I REFUSE to run closed loop, mainly because for non cat engines it's seriously not needed and is in my opinion a con, a very expensive one at that, correct mapping doesn't need it.
tabetha
Yes plenty of personal experience with pinto's, in fact my 2nd favourite engine behind the x flow.
I can assure you there are many many 205's running 450+ bhp on rebored blocks, but I can also assure you I have seen "famous name" engine builders bore blocks WITHOUT a deck/stress plate, if this is done the bore is scrap, as the 205 and 200 block wobble more than jelly when being bored.
My own YB 205 has just had it's rebuild at 200,973 miles(320,000 k's) and is still on the std size crank journals both big ends and mains, and still uses the 200,000 mile old thrust bearings, and is still within NEW tolerance on these at 4 thou thrust.
Even with this mileage emissions were 0.97% CO and 137ppm, but this was on a emerald K3 after market ecu, didn't even come close to that on the L6, even after set up, I REFUSE to run closed loop, mainly because for non cat engines it's seriously not needed and is in my opinion a con, a very expensive one at that, correct mapping doesn't need it.
tabetha
But that deck/stress plate youre talking about, what is that?
12-11-2010, 05:25 PM
#7
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A deck/stress plate is a plate about 3" - 4" thick that replaces the cylinder head when reboring is being carried out, it has the cylinder bores in the plate cut out so a boring tool can be used this moves up and down the bore to make larger.
Some blocks move more than others when exerted to force, like wobble, the pinto is bad for this having a lot of wobble, as are a huge amount of engines, if you bore a cylinder without the deck plate it will not in a million years be correct it will actually taper slightly and be out of round, using a deck plate means 100% accuracy when the block is clamped with a head, otherwise a dead correct block without the head on that has been bored without the deck plate will move once a head is put on, and be out.
I have seen machine shops not use a deck plate it has to be said.
tabetha
Some blocks move more than others when exerted to force, like wobble, the pinto is bad for this having a lot of wobble, as are a huge amount of engines, if you bore a cylinder without the deck plate it will not in a million years be correct it will actually taper slightly and be out of round, using a deck plate means 100% accuracy when the block is clamped with a head, otherwise a dead correct block without the head on that has been bored without the deck plate will move once a head is put on, and be out.
I have seen machine shops not use a deck plate it has to be said.
tabetha
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12-11-2010, 05:50 PM
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i thought the same as rockhound on the 205 blocks, does that mean that people are wrong about the 202 block pintos? ive heard alot about the 202 block not being able to be used for cosworth conversions etc but never actualy seen anyone try it and end up wrecking the block, anyone know?
12-11-2010, 06:00 PM
#9
i thought the same as rockhound on the 205 blocks, does that mean that people are wrong about the 202 block pintos? ive heard alot about the 202 block not being able to be used for cosworth conversions etc but never actualy seen anyone try it and end up wrecking the block, anyone know?
Martin
Last edited by martysmartie; 12-11-2010 at 06:03 PM.
12-11-2010, 07:46 PM
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A deck/stress plate is a plate about 3" - 4" thick that replaces the cylinder head when reboring is being carried out, it has the cylinder bores in the plate cut out so a boring tool can be used this moves up and down the bore to make larger.
Some blocks move more than others when exerted to force, like wobble, the pinto is bad for this having a lot of wobble, as are a huge amount of engines, if you bore a cylinder without the deck plate it will not in a million years be correct it will actually taper slightly and be out of round, using a deck plate means 100% accuracy when the block is clamped with a head, otherwise a dead correct block without the head on that has been bored without the deck plate will move once a head is put on, and be out.
I have seen machine shops not use a deck plate it has to be said.
tabetha
Some blocks move more than others when exerted to force, like wobble, the pinto is bad for this having a lot of wobble, as are a huge amount of engines, if you bore a cylinder without the deck plate it will not in a million years be correct it will actually taper slightly and be out of round, using a deck plate means 100% accuracy when the block is clamped with a head, otherwise a dead correct block without the head on that has been bored without the deck plate will move once a head is put on, and be out.
I have seen machine shops not use a deck plate it has to be said.
tabetha
14-11-2010, 10:34 AM
#13
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Yes 202 is as said fine also, the only people telling you you must not use anything other than a 200 block, are ignorant, some are liars as well, some cowboys, many big bhp cars came along before 200 block that came along due to extra lower strength for 4wd.
So long as bored with deck plate will be fine, my ones just done 200,000 miles or 320,000 kilometers, and was still going fine, albeit oil control rings shagged, compression was fine, bhp emissions mpg were fine.
I took it to the 7300rpm limit at least 3-5 times each day, always used hard, once warmed up.
So long as bored with deck plate will be fine, my ones just done 200,000 miles or 320,000 kilometers, and was still going fine, albeit oil control rings shagged, compression was fine, bhp emissions mpg were fine.
I took it to the 7300rpm limit at least 3-5 times each day, always used hard, once warmed up.
14-11-2010, 12:59 PM
#14
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205 blocks have different casting in and aaround the crank area depending on year and model of car. With the selected 205 Cosworth blocks having way more material in there. So to answer the OP you need to find the correct block, any old 205 block may not suit your needs.
14-11-2010, 02:48 PM
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18-11-2010, 02:32 PM
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Yes 202 is as said fine also, the only people telling you you must not use anything other than a 200 block, are ignorant, some are liars as well, some cowboys, many big bhp cars came along before 200 block that came along due to extra lower strength for 4wd.
So long as bored with deck plate will be fine, my ones just done 200,000 miles or 320,000 kilometers, and was still going fine, albeit oil control rings shagged, compression was fine, bhp emissions mpg were fine.
I took it to the 7300rpm limit at least 3-5 times each day, always used hard, once warmed up.
So long as bored with deck plate will be fine, my ones just done 200,000 miles or 320,000 kilometers, and was still going fine, albeit oil control rings shagged, compression was fine, bhp emissions mpg were fine.
I took it to the 7300rpm limit at least 3-5 times each day, always used hard, once warmed up.
ive heard people calling the 202 block a short block before, does that mean its shorter or is it a load of cr*p? if so does that mean it uses a different length conrod do you know? or if standard cosworth conrods will be fine to use in a 202 block? just trying to find out a bit about these differences myself as if 202 block is fine to use then no point me going and buying a 205 one when theres a 202 already in the car lol
cheers nick
18-11-2010, 02:47 PM
#19
205 blocks have different casting in and aaround the crank area depending on year and model of car. With the selected 205 Cosworth blocks having way more material in there. So to answer the OP you need to find the correct block, any old 205 block may not suit your needs.
As I and others have said it's just a 205 block picked for the bore tolerances, can't see how this would mean it would have more material in there?
Re the 202 block it's just a late Pinto block and yes plenty of people have used without problems, all internals should fit although I haven't done this personally.
Martin
18-11-2010, 03:24 PM
#20
Hi,
Yes plenty of personal experience with pinto's, in fact my 2nd favourite engine behind the x flow.
I can assure you there are many many 205's running 450+ bhp on rebored blocks, but I can also assure you I have seen "famous name" engine builders bore blocks WITHOUT a deck/stress plate, if this is done the bore is scrap, as the 205 and 200 block wobble more than jelly when being bored.
My own YB 205 has just had it's rebuild at 200,973 miles(320,000 k's) and is still on the std size crank journals both big ends and mains, and still uses the 200,000 mile old thrust bearings, and is still within NEW tolerance on these at 4 thou thrust.
Even with this mileage emissions were 0.97% CO and 137ppm, but this was on a emerald K3 after market ecu, didn't even come close to that on the L6, even after set up, I REFUSE to run closed loop, mainly because for non cat engines it's seriously not needed and is in my opinion a con, a very expensive one at that, correct mapping doesn't need it.
tabetha
Yes plenty of personal experience with pinto's, in fact my 2nd favourite engine behind the x flow.
I can assure you there are many many 205's running 450+ bhp on rebored blocks, but I can also assure you I have seen "famous name" engine builders bore blocks WITHOUT a deck/stress plate, if this is done the bore is scrap, as the 205 and 200 block wobble more than jelly when being bored.
My own YB 205 has just had it's rebuild at 200,973 miles(320,000 k's) and is still on the std size crank journals both big ends and mains, and still uses the 200,000 mile old thrust bearings, and is still within NEW tolerance on these at 4 thou thrust.
Even with this mileage emissions were 0.97% CO and 137ppm, but this was on a emerald K3 after market ecu, didn't even come close to that on the L6, even after set up, I REFUSE to run closed loop, mainly because for non cat engines it's seriously not needed and is in my opinion a con, a very expensive one at that, correct mapping doesn't need it.
tabetha
18-11-2010, 03:34 PM
#21
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