turbo-herman

What modifications do i need if i want to run my mfi rst to run on cossie management? And what do you guys think of that idea????

Sure it's been. Done before

simonmcf

iTrader: (1)

Jano at Oddkidd is best i say for this. send him a pm

darrenb16two

Why would you want to do that? There would be no benefits

turbo-herman

Not saying i going to. Just thinking about it.
Till now my plans are to run the standard ecu with msd evo chip but it came in my mind to maybe run cossie management.

But only if it came with some benifits.


If it's better to stick with the first plan, i'll do that.
Just curious mate

darrenb16two

There are lots of benefits to cosworth management but you wouldn't be getting any of them, I don't even know if it would be possible anyway to be honest. I really think the standard mfi and management are good but only to around 180bhp. My advice would be to stick with the mfi or go full cosworth management. Only talking from my own expirences

Roscopeco

iTrader: (1)

I may have mis read it Darren but i think what hes getting at is his S2 is mfi at the moment and was thinking of cosworth management . As in , going efi

If im wrong then fair enough just how i read it mate

creator

As dal has said.you cant run mfi with weber managment.mfi is mechanical fuel injection where as weber (cossie) managment is efi.you either have and use one or the other mate.going efi will completly change how your car runs idles drives ect for the better.its the best modification that can be done to an mfi car imo

Beach

There is so many advantages even on a fairly standard car!!

Get rid of the mfi and get it running proper efi

jessie_rs

i read it the same way. Cosworth management is one of the best things you could do to your rst

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

Cossie management is expensive and old, get your chosen tuner to fit something else IMO, Omex, MS, OFAM, etc. etc..

creator

Karl i dont think theres much between it imo when i had my fiesta converted to cossie managment i bought it all had it fitted and mapped and was about £14-1500 all in

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

The price is roughly the same I agree mate, but your using a 20+ year old ECU and loom... I personally would rather have a brand new ECU/loom and the additional features a modern ECU gives you too.

Versus_Creations

iTrader: (1)

To get a DECENT! ECU that will run sequential injection is not as cheap as you make out.

Lets compare a L6 ecu that is perfect for any of our engines to provide the same if not better results than an aftermarket version. This costs £100-150

Now what model OMEX will run sequential and at what cost? £650 at least. Thats without any wiring etc. Also it will use all the same sensors if it was on weber or omex.
So how about others like pectel we all know that is top of the range and will again cost at least £500+ for the low models. Then we have the likes of life racing etc. Which the ecu is 1k.

So the build quality of the ecu and many other costs come into it too.

I could carry on but some people wont learn by others mistakes and require making them on their own.

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

Yes it is, but I'm not going argue with you Jano it's pointless... We all know you'll peddle Cossie management all day long and will happily take the guys money to fit an map it, in fact I imagine a PM has already gone over to him.

For me and others fitting old ECU's and looms is just not an option.... But each to their own

luke19790_3

So why do people charge £1500 for the conversion?

chalkey

i also dont understand why people stick to cossie management rather than ofam, omex ect, as said earlier its 20 years old and seems like alot of faffing to get it it set up and running. is there something ive been missing weber vs megasquirt?

studabear

I had no end of trouble with cossie management, also had a couple of inital issues with megasquirt but once sorted its been a good move, better on fuel too

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

There's nothing your missing mate no.
Some MS ECU's can be poorly built leading to issues, this is where buying from a reputable source is paramount, but other than that they are IME spot on for the money and have a very comprehensive feature list too!

It's 2013 and Webber was made in the early 90's (80's if your using Sierra stuff).... Things have moved on!! lol
Or maybe I should dig out my old cassette tapes, video tapes, Sega mega drive, 486 PC and my CRT TV in place of MP3's, Bluray, Xbox 360, 8 Core CPU PC and my 50" Plasma?! lol

I wouldn't normally go on about it but I'm piss bored of hearing the same old shit every time a management discussion crops up on here! lol

B833YKJ

What's the best format to listen to music on..........?

Roscopeco

iTrader: (1)

Vinyl

B833YKJ

yeah but its old so it can't be.......

Roscopeco

iTrader: (1)

Canada1

Interesting thread!

(I do prefer analog format for listening (heavy vinyl and half speed masters) - and prefer class 1 valve amplifiers too)

back to engine management:
Nothing wrong with older management - However tuning does become an issue - who wants to deal with Hex format 00 to FF? when changing ignition maps or fuel maps?
Who wants to deal with EPROMs and UV lamps to erase them? I remember modifying old (80"s) Cosworth Indycar type EPROMS - not something that everyone would be able to do easily.

The newest management (may or may not make more peak power) but it is far, far easier to change all settings. Everything is in a much more user friendly environment.

Who would want to go back to the old punch card programming that took place in the 70's?


Cheers

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

lol In this case older can be better!.... You wouldn't use one to store your ignition and fuel maps on though!

darrenb16two

Is OFAM not 20 year old fiesta stuff with a new ECU? Or have i missed something? Not being an arse, just wondered?

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

OFAM uses your old EFI loom yes, it's designed to be plug and play so there has to be a compromise in that respect.
Knowing how easy it is to wire up a fresh loom I would always do that instead, old looms can be nightmare for fault finding.

Canada1

Karlos is correct - 20 year old looms can be a nightmare.
Look at the severe corrosion that happens to auto chassis on older cars.
The wiring looms can easily become corroded and faults start happening.
I wouldn't think of running with an old wiring loom. Better to be safe than sorry.

creator

It does make me laugh someone saying that one of the reasons they wouldnt use cossie managment is because it uses an old loom,yet then suggests using an ofam ecu wich uses a loom thats jut as old? How does that work?

phil_rs

iTrader: (3)

Using ANY management, a new loom should be made up IMO. Whether it be Webber, OFAM, MS etc etc!

I wouldn't hesitate using an old ECU, though

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

If your talking about me then it's because that's only one of the reasons, some people (who don't mind using old looms) like the idea of plug and play so OFAM is a much better choice (Cheaper, brand new, more features, etc.).... Again, only if you don't mind using an old loom, like I said above I personally wouldn't do it, new loom and ECU all the way
Why is that, do you think old ECU's can't develop faults?
A faulty ECU can be harder to diagnose than a faulty loom and it's not like you can just swap it for another one to test it.......

Bottom line is there's no reason not to use a brand new ECU and loom in this day and age.

creator

If you read what i put karl i did say it was just one of the reasons why somebody wouldnt use it.as you know mate all these features you can have on a weber ecu.also as im sure you know you can get new weber looms and all sensors.And im sure webcon still sell new ecus.granted im not 100% sure if they do and also if they do how much they are.but surley and ecu that has had millions if not multiple millon pound developments is going to be better than a "cheaper" ecu?

phil_rs

iTrader: (3)

Do you think new ECU's can't develop faults

Why can't you just swap/borrow one to test for a faulty ECU?

creator

Agree as its been mentioned new ecus can develop faults.

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

You can't have all the features mate, some can be added to a stock ECU but not all and it costs too.
Yes you can get new everything pretty much but again it would cost a fortune so isn't an option really.
It's not going to be better because what may have been top of the line 20 years ago after millions of pounds of development is now readily available for a fraction of the price and with faster, more efficient hardware.... Everything moves on over time.... 8bit to 16bit to 32bit to 64bit processors for example.
lol Anything can develop a fault new or old yes... But generally the older and more used it is the more likely it is to develop a fault.

Have a think about it mate, why wouldn't picking up another second hand Webber ECU and plugging it in not tell you if yours was at fault?.... Even a known working one from a running car.

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

Millions and millions of pounds spent on developing technology 20 years ago doesn't mean the same now, millions and millions of pounds spend developing an ecu for a different engine too....


I would bet that the number of people around the world using megasquirt out numbers the number of people using l6/l8/p8 more than 10 to 1.

Weber is still great though and will be a superb improvement over mfi.

Its worth noting that 20year old wiring looms aren't nearly as problematic when you can plug a laptop in and with 2 mins see which sensor/input isn't working.

Canada1

This is so silly!

New modern ECU's are far, far more reliable than 20 or 30 year old designs - fact. No one can argue modern manufacturing of electronic components - ic's, memory, clocks etc.. are far, far superior as better design and manufacturing techniques advance.

Let alone the advancements in electronic hardware are the HUGE advancements in software for modern management systems.
Why would anyone want to program with hex? ff ff ? 8 bit processors? Why?
New management is far easier to map, make changes, and monitor engine parameters.
No one can argue with that either.

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

Nope, not really. If they have been properly built, and properly tested... but why would it matter anyway? A new ecu has a proper guarantee and can be sent back/swapped for free

Sequential injection seems to be a really big selling point for some ecu's, however the number of people who could give a technical answer regarding its merits don't seem be that numerous... Perhaps you could explain it mate? Im interested in how sequential injection behaves at high RPM, with tiny injection events and a high injector PW... When you map weber do you alter the injector timing? or trim individual cylinders? Is the YB just similar enough that the injector timing doesn't matter on a cvh? Can you adjust injector dead time to suit different types of injector...

Although this might look like a dig, it really isn't. I am genuinely interested to know why you recommend one system over another just because it does sequential injection?

Rob,

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

Quite right. Im working on a 32bit project at the moment which is just staggering. Programming with hex is horrid full stop.

The basic hardware isn't hugely improved, however the processors are simply amazing. Normal drivers are cheaper, smaller and can handle more abuse, the biggest benefit of modern drivers is their package type and feedback system (some have 4 injector drivers in one and give feedback to the ecu about how much current an injector draws etc).

One of the great benefits of better faster processors is the coding can be done in a much higher level language. Makes it more accessible to people, easier to understand and change. Technology has progressed in this area by a scary amount over the last 2 decades.

Tuning software of even the simplest system is leagues ahead to.

But at the same time, a well maintained mechanical injection system still works well, how advanced does an ecu really need to be to smoothly run an engine? the answer is not very tbh... It does need to be pretty amazing to deal with all the OBD crap, emissions, fault diagnostics etc etc.

Choose a tuner, then choose the managment system they like the most. You will get a far better result this way in terms of cost and outcome. The best ecu in the world badly mapped is no better than the reverse and probably worse.

darrenb16two

"Choose a tuner, then choose the managment system they like the most. You will get a far better result this way in terms of cost and outcome. The best ecu in the world badly mapped is no better than the reverse and probably worse."

Best advice I've seen on here

Versus_Creations

iTrader: (1)

a small list of cars i have that run weber. There are plenty more. Still being produced and fitted.

Alfa Romeo
155 Production numbers over 100,000
75 Production numbers over 70,000

Fiat over 20 models over 20 years at least 500,000 cars
COUPE
Croma
Tempra
Tipo

Ferrari

Ford
cosworths

Lanica over 25 models over 15 years+ at least 500,000 cars.
Coupe
Dedra
Delta HF
Delta intergrale
Prisma