New_guy_in_town

Food for thought.
just finished a 2.0 blacktop turbo on a standard engine, no compression plate.
240bhp with more to go due to poor injectors.
used a tdo413t and small intercooler.

studabear

Be interesting to see what final power it makes and how long it lasts, is it on aftermarket management, how is it doing for det and air charge temps?

allaboutfords

As studabear says cant see it lasting long. I put a turbo on a 1.7 puma at 10psi with no mods went great turned it up to 12psi still went well until it went bang.
Air temp must be high with small intercooler and high comp. Also det would worry me seen many a melted piston.
I will stick with zetec head on st block just need someone who knows for sure what I would need to do to a silver top head or someone with a black top head for sale.

studabear

It appears I live in the same town as you, I know a few people with various parts who might have a head.

studabear

Has this been ran in the warmer months? Small intercooler in winter will cope a lot better than the summer.

allaboutfords

I have a Garage and live in Skem. Not seen your cabby knocking around but I don't get out much with work and home. I have so many cars and projects its unreal just don't get time. This engine will be going in a mk4 van. I want to get all the major stuff done to it so I can build engine and just drop it in and connect it. I have a MK4 cabby shell to trial fit everything to make life easier.

studabear

Ah rite, my mistake I thought your location said sunny shitty Blackpool the other day lol

New_guy_in_town

Its running omex. Yes it was in the colder months we had recently so will need further work.
11psi or 1.8 ratio to be exact on the boost so not high and the zetec copes with it well. The small intercooler is of unknown make and not great on efficiency so will be swaped for a better fitting one.
turbo runs around 73% in the islands. 440 subaru injectors which are a bit knackered will be swapped for new 550cc injectors and fuel will be adjusted to suit.
not aiming for much more power just to sort the fueling.
if compression was lower, we may get 280ish but thats not the aim, the higher compression gives off boost power and faster spool times.
how long will it last,anyones guess but were hoping it will good in the long term.

allaboutfords

Fair play to ya. Breaking the boundaries is what its all about LOL

allaboutfords

You probs know the guy who but my white 4x4 sierra and has a red Orion then if your in sunny shitty Blackpool

studabear

Yeah man, I know him.

New_guy_in_town

It was a good starting project, to be honest its all about the air flow thats needed and selecting the correct turbo. Keeping the ACTs low and turbo small enougth to spool quickly but not running out at top end.
ill admit to not knowing everything about turbos but i have a mate thats great with engines. He really knows his stuff.
The next step after this ones done is to look at mine, only 1.8 but looking at a very close setup.

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

This is quite interesting!
I've not managed to stop det above 7psi at stock CR on 99 RON without really retarded timing, almost to the point it's not worth it.
11psi is about the most you'll do on stock valve springs too.

New_guy_in_town

Thats rather shocking. Why?
well we ran 270bjp with same boost as before but the larger injectors and a TT intercooler.
nothing fancy just a remap to take account of the new injectors.
The turbo tops out at 390cfm so thats about on the money.

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

Because the CR is too high.
Not to doubt you but 270bhp at stock CR and with stock valve springs just isn't possible (well, maybe for 10 mins before it lets go), the rods/pistons will not take that either... perhaps the dyno you are using isn't accurate?.... Just thinking out loud mate, something isn't right there.

New_guy_in_town

Karlos.
its running fine and literally starts on the button.
The bottom end is all as it came from the factory. Its all stock with the addition of the turbo and omex with larger injectors. The compression keeps boost coming in early, almost from idle. This means were not running excessive boosts and keeping the turbo in the most efficient areas for as long as possible.
An Audi TT intercooler helps further cool the Air temps. So were now at low boost but high density.
the 550cc injectors are a little over kill but with the omex controling it all its running sweet.

if you look at the numbers its nothing special. YBs were pushing more than this decades ago with an old design of turbo. The zetec is a better all round on efficiency. All we have done is marry it with an efficient turbo and an ECU that allows tighter controls.

incidently the dynos used were Slark Racing before they moved and JKM at Portsmouth.
Yes they did read differently on the graphs, but if you use the raw date then convert using realistic correction factors, they both were very close to each other.

we did play around with swinging the cams and found more at top end but the torque did drop off from the bottom substantially.

now i dont know your spec but have you also tried swinging, retarding the inlet a tooth? It will bleed of pressure in the lower end but allow better filling at the top end.

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

For stock CR the figures you are quoting is something special mate... The YB is 8.0:1 the Zetec is nearly 11:1 which is why it struggles with any sort of boost above a few psi.
But it's cool, if you're doing it and your spec and figures are accurate then fair play

New_guy_in_town

Its a little over 10. Which is fine because were using that higher figure to allow a quicker spool up. And it also means were getting more out off the charge mixture. So therefore you dont have to reduce CRs and you can still use appropriate boost. Also having checked, the cam is retarded by few degrees which reduces dynamic compression ratio.

The Mitsy/Scoobie turbo, also used on others, is a decent efficiency unit. It helps alot and is better suited than say a classic T3, T3/4 hybrid combo.

All that has been done is carefull select components that work together. Its nothing special, maybe a little out of the box for some.

If your unable to hold boost, or get yours to even play then i say at 6psi theres something wrong.

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

10.8:1 is stock CR on a black top and whilst lowering dynamic CR will help I've still never seen power or boost that high before reliably.

But as I said if you've achieved it and it's working well then good work mate

In fairness I've not ever tried to see what can be squeezed out of a totally stock engine, when you do it for a living you don't take risks with customers cars, you build what's going to be reliable for their target BHP.
The engine I referenced earlier at 7psi was actually a silver top on a stock RST T3 so DCR and SCR were both high, the customer insisted I do it as he had no money and just wanted his CVH replaced with what he had laying around... Not something I would ever advise lol

New_guy_in_town

Karlos.

im going to do a 1.8 Silvertop for my own use. Not measured yet but im led to believe a 2.0 head has bigger chambers. I have one of each so its just a case of finding time to measure. Perhaps if its true you may have a 1.8 head so higher CRs. Youll have to remind me of the guys full specs
i did think that a silver had 9 point something and black was 10.2 on the CRs. Maybe thats why were getting good figures.
Also each 3psi boost is equal to a point increase in CR, acording to research
may i add i would never trust the 99 ron claims. Ive seen reports of differing content to the point its not guaranteed. For the price its not worth it to me, bog standard fuel all the way for me. Im sure others have thier own ideas on this.

My project has to wait awhile but its a 1.8 Silver that will run a RST exhaust modified to fit the Tdo4 series turbo. Maybe use the 2.0 head if its chambers prove to be bigger, either way ill probably deshroud the valves and clean up the throats but not much more.
for intake i was thinking Fezzy efi style set up or just use the 2.0 intake.
whichever way its supposed to be a representative build of a basic home brewed solution, managed by omex/emerald as the only fancy addition.

New_guy_in_town

Karlos.

im going to do a 1.8 Silvertop for my own use. Not measured yet but im led to believe a 2.0 head has bigger chambers. I have one of each so its just a case of finding time to measure. Perhaps if its true you may have a 1.8 head so higher CRs. Youll have to remind me of the guys full specs
i did think that a silver had 9 point something and black was 10.2 on the CRs. Maybe thats why were getting good figures.
Also each 3psi boost is equal to a point increase in CR, acording to research
may i add i would never trust the 99 ron claims. Ive seen reports of differing content to the point its not guaranteed. For the price its not worth it to me, bog standard fuel all the way for me. Im sure others have thier own ideas on this.

My project has to wait awhile but its a 1.8 Silver that will run a RST exhaust modified to fit the Tdo4 series turbo. Maybe use the 2.0 head if its chambers prove to be bigger, either way ill probably deshroud the valves and clean up the throats but not much more.
for intake i was thinking Fezzy efi style set up or just use the 2.0 intake.
whichever way its supposed to be a representative build of a basic home brewed solution, managed by omex/emerald as the only fancy addition.

colins2

the ST170 head is 42CC and pistons -2CC blacktop 45CC Focus RS 48CC

Carlitos

Question regarding gaskets. Looks like a lot of people are using Cometic 070 gaskets (1.78mm). Cometic also do 080 gasket (2.03mm).



Has anybody tried the 080 gasket, how does it affect cr or boost?

big_wasa

I can not find any one selling them, got a link to where you have seen them ?

There was a guy that raised the concern that due to them being designed for an over bored block at 87mm there wasn't as lot of gasket left between the cylinders ?

Carlitos

It was 87mm, which I think was the same size as the 070 listed on burton power.



Not on my home PC now, but I think this was the page I found last night.
https://frsport.com/cometic-c4279-08...RoCPk8QAvD_BwE

big_wasa

Keep us posted if you get one.

Carlitos

Will do. Although completing my build is still quite far off I think. Still collecting the expensive or rare bits, got a number if items already. Intercooler and gasket are next on my list, then I might start looking for an engine!

matthart

That was me, I had cometic make a 85.5mm bore gasket. It's on my zetec turbo now.

Part number is H1760SP3080S

Good luck getting one, I had one delivered to an american friend and then shipped over here.

big_wasa

Rare bits. What are you building ?

Carlitos

Well, maybe not that rare, but bits that don't come up often at a good price and in great shape (at least not in the time I've been looking). Spent a long time just waiting for the right parts to pop up which weren't silly money.

Got an IB5 gearbox with LSD fitted in great condition. And a Sierra cossie turbo with .48 which was recommended on this thread. Appears to be recently refurbished too, either that or just in great nick. Those are probably the important bit for me. Other bits sat around include megasquirt, blacktop head, arp bolts, full exhaust, some other bits including a nice v-band turbo adapter by Kinzy Motorsport. So I'm definitely getting there. Just finished with the big brake conversion so now back to looking for engine bits!

I assumed 87mm was standard as all the gaskets I looked at were size. 85.5 is the normal size I take it then?

big_wasa

Standard bore is 84 somthing. 85.5 bore would give a 2.1L so is still an over bore gasket but I’ve never measured the bore of the actual gasket.

Yep I’ve spent the last five years collecting Focus Rs parts as and when I can.

Carlitos

Just looking at clutches to get an idea of wallet damage. The AP Racing CP2000-35 clutch apparently is no longer available and hasn't been replaced. I've checked Helix clutches but I can't find any which match the torque as the AP ones. Anybody know of a decent clutch alternative?

NC53

I've a few questions about gearboxes which I hope someone can advise me on.

So I am going to be fitting an ST170 engine into a Mk4 Escort. I will be running it on its original n/a form as I'm not looking for big power. I stripped the full donor Focus so have everything required from that car. Anyway, initially I was intending to use the Getrag 6 speed box but now that I've read on here that an IB5 can be used from a Puma, I'm thinking I might do that instead. At the moment I'm just weighing up the benefits v disbenefits of each.

If I understand things correctly, in order to make the getrag box work, I will need to do the following;

• fabricate a custom mount on the n/s/f inner wing - not a huge issue as I removed the original from the Focus and can weld that into the Escort
• custom driveshafts - which I assume will be a combination of the focus and escort items (I'm guessing this could be quite expensive to get an engineering company to do as I don't fancy just trying to cut and weld them together)
• convert the escort to hydraulic clutch and electronic speedo pick up - again using the focus parts inc clocks, I'm thinking this isn't a huge job although I'm not 100% sure what is involved at this stage
• use the focus gear linkage arrangement (cables) - should be doable
• TTV or similar billet flywheel and clutch

Clearly the flywheel and custom driveshafts are going to be the biggest expense involved in this. My question is, have I missed anything and why does no-one use the dual mass flywheel and clutch from the focus. I know DMFs tend to give problems but as I have the whole donor car then it's effectively free in my case. Can someone tell me why it can't be used?

Turning to the IB5 option from a Puma, again if I am understanding things correctly, I will need:

• the rear starter variant with hydraulic clutch cylinder and electronic speedo pickup
• it will fit into the Mk4 gearbox cradle assembly so no mods required there
• Mk4 driveshafts will fit - again no mods required
• convert the Escort to hydraulic clutch and electronic speedo with donor parts from the Focus - not entirely sure on this at present
• A Mk4 EFI or 1.8 zetec single mass flywheel with either the RST or 1.8 clutch assembly
• Puma gear linkage which is an improvement over the Mk4 item

Have I missed anything with the above? Why can't the puma flywheel and clutch be used? What would be involved to convert to hydraulic clutch and the electronic speedo?

cheers

big_wasa

Your free dmf is bound to be either shagged or well on its way. Unless you have receipts to say it's fresh with low miles. The standard clutch struggled with the standard power out put so they increased the diameter half way through its life.

NC53

studabear

Hydraulic clutch conversion is well documented on here and not to dear to do.

I was chatting to a lad at Ford fair years ago that had fitted the ST170 gearbox and I'm sure he said the servo and master cylinder got in the way of the gearbox and required modifications.

big_wasa

Carlitos

bassboy

Does anyone happen to have a base ignition map for a Zetec Turbo running Megasquirt? Just need some base figures to get it running

studabear

I should have something. Pm me your email and I will send you something when I'm on my laptop.