vroooom ptssssh

Anybody ever had an issue with one? I've got a suspect pump fitted to my engine, oil light went out on first start then came on after 5 minutes running, put a gauge on and oil pressure was .8bar at idle with warm oil, pressure dropped to .6 so gave it a rev and it was back up to a bar at idle, when revving pressure went up fine as it should, at 4.5k rpm pressure was up at 5 bar, left it over night, started it up cold and oil pressure was way too high, I forget what it was...but it wasn't right. Can't get the releif valve out but it didn't feel right..having saw good oil pressure i'm going to have a punt at saying the engine is fine as in it's not a clearance issue, it's got to be something to do with the relief valve so tomorrow im ordering a new ford pump.

Anyone had a similar experience with their HP oil pumps?

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

IIRC lots of people have reported problems with the Burtons HP pumps, I personally have had no issues though.

Danster76

iTrader: (2)

Is your engine a fresh rebuild?

vroooom ptssssh

Engine is a fresh build yes, had another look at it today...the relief valve isn't jammed but I cannot remove it from the pump which is strange, has great oil pressure 5+bar when cold at idle, once fully warmed up at idle its down to .6 bar

has to be something to do with the relief valve, as I can remove the valve from any other CVH pump with no hassle at all.

DazC

iTrader: (1)

Bin it Dave!! I had a Burton pump and have heard stories about them so never fitted it purely on the stories I had heard. Then heard more when I was at SCS 18 months ago.

Get a decent pump on there. I've had issues with a Genuine Ford pump but the AutoPumps copy fitted now is fine. If it's an S2 crank the the OE pumps are still available if you want to go down that route.

DazC

iTrader: (1)

I recon you'll find that the drilling for the relief valve isn't cylindrical and it is allowing pressure to be lost as oil flows past the plunger even though it's sat on the seat. It'll be passing it and returning to the sump.

Danster76

iTrader: (2)

OP does your engine use the S1 crank therefore S1 oil pump?

makaveli96

I've also bought the hp oil pump from burton power about 3 or 4 years ago but I haven't yet fitted it I thought I would keep it in case I need it in the furture but hearing stories in the past about them is making me think weather to keep it or sell it..

vroooom ptssssh

Where did you get the AutoPumps copy Daz?
once I fit a new pump and IF everything is OK I'll be sending it back to burton and telling them I want a refund for that, a new sump gasket and the 2 oil pump gaskets Could really have done without this hassle ATM.

The pump I got quoted Ł65 from Dingbro was a "British Gaskets" made oil pump apparently.

It's a fiesta RS Turbo crank mate, as thats what the engine in the car is out of.

makaveli96, I wouldn't trust it as far as I could throw it mate

clarke5700

fit a standard ford pump! the burton H/P pump is an aftermarket pump made by "auto pumps" and then they stretch the spring and call it uprated lol

essexRSTSouthend

Bloody hell,i hear about these pumps failing too much.ive kept with the ford item.Spose like the headgasket,stick with the oe seems best bet mate.

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

Hi there, as every one has recommended go ford OE, expensive but seem less problematic. Mine is 20psi at idle on 10w/40 with hot oil. I forget how much my pump was, got a feeling it was a silly price like Ł200!!!! but after an expensive rebuild i doubt you would want to go any other way.

Shame as its not exactly a doddle to fit in the car. I would personally rather remove the engine and re do the sump gasket out of the car etc.

Good luck!

Rob,

Rogeyboy

iTrader: (2)

A friend of mine had a prob with an Burton oil pump, which lost all pressure and fucked the engine! He got a new engine complete with pump, and loads of other goodies for his aggro! It was a few years ago mind... Now the engine is still going strong!

Roscopeco

iTrader: (1)

Hmm this doesnt bode well as ive got a hd burton pump and in the middle of a rebuild ! Not so sure i'll be putting on after all think i'll be going to ford !

vroooom ptssssh

I think i'll prob need to go for an OE pump for peace of mind, hoping this is the problem though I can't see what else it could be as never had a problem with the guy that done the crank and supplied the shells, and what with the relief valve being a bit funny and being unable to remove it from the pump, which isn't right.

essexRSTSouthend

You start asking yourself why burton still supply a pump that aint fit for the job its built for...

1223456

Im guessing people people who arnt that clued up see the "uprated" word next to the product title then phone and order one thinking they have invested in a good product to look after their cvh engine.

I know that is what I did on my first rs turbo build :-(

You live and learn

jonny s2

iTrader: (12)

^^similar stories to the FELPRO cvh headgaskets,

vroooom ptssssh

Well going to remove the pump on sunday and inspect it, then likely order a new pump if the conclusion is that the pump is at fault, which im 95% sure it is! Unless anybody want's to buy a series 1 needing a new oil pump

DazC

iTrader: (1)

Are you sure? The one I got wasn't an Auto Pumps one.

Incidently my off the shelf Auto Pumps unit produces 1.2 bar of pressure when warm which is about 22 psi. My genuine (genuinely expensive!!) Ford pump wouldn't even lift the oil!

vroooom ptssssh

So much confusion lol

Versus_Creations

iTrader: (1)

I havent read the whole thread, but in short spend the Ł170 ish and buy genuine ford pump. Then fit an uprated oil pressure spring for Ł10.

The burtons pumps will be a QH or such like pump with the same spring as above.

Any pump should be taken apart, cleaned reasembled with some mineral or running in oil soaking the drive before hand.

DazC

iTrader: (1)

I burnt a new starter motor out trying to get my OE pump to lift oil!!

Jimbo Gibbs will remember the issues I had one day with my OE pump!! Cost me a day on the dyno, Ł150 for fucking about at Harvey's, Ł130 in diesel in my van, Ł120 for the oil pump (I get good Ford discount), Ł60 ish for another copy pump, Ł30 in gaskets, Ł90 for a new starter motor.

DazC

iTrader: (1)

I dare say I got shafted with a dodgy pump but as I was struggling to get it to lift pressure I thought fuck it I'll slap a different pump on from my local engine component specialist (who I have never had issues with bad parts) as a tester. It lifted the oil straight away and produced good oil pressure so I left the thing on.

I'd say get an OE pump Dave as I may just have been brush handled with a shit pump, although I would be a bit unhappy at pissing Ł180 up the wall to still have oil pressure issues.

Make sure the pick up pipe flange is flat and also, daft point to make, make sure the gauze is clear and the gasket is on the right way (yes I have seen this a few times)!

vroooom ptssssh

Yea Daz thats my prob I don't want to spend Ł180 to still find i have issues elsewhere, sump is coming off to remove and inspect the pump that is on before I decide on buying a new pump, to which i'll plastiguage the shells to makesure they are not the issue, re-check the pickup and gasket (always very careful when fitting these and make sure they are clean by steam cleaning them in reverse) always makesure crank and rod oil holes are clear...SO annoying even though i'm V.sure about the build i'm still doubting myself. it's got great pressure when cold (5+bar) Out of all the CVH's i've built mine had to be the one with the problem, Sods law!

vroooom ptssssh

Appears it is an Autopump oil pump on my car, relief valve won't come out. everything else was fine but not plastiguaged the shells as of yet.

clarke5700

the one i got was lol then i see the light and built a zetec lol

vroooom ptssssh

Right....I finally got round to sorting this, plastiguaged all the shells to makesure it wasn't a mechanical issue, checked everything to makesure it wasn't an error on my part when assembling....







everything was within tollerance and assembled correctly.
So got on with getting a new pump last week (Ł75 "british gaskets" pump from Dingbro) and fitted it, fired it up...and.....no oil light, pressure was 1.1 bar when up to temp

So going to send the "high pressure" piece of shit Autopumps pump back to Burton, have a right mind to charge them for the gasket's I had to re-replace and the labour

I sat and thought about the "high pressure" pump...and we all know the only difference is the high pressure relief spring....well once the cars warmed up, the relief valve is unlikely to open so therefore the spring only gives higher pressure when cold, which is pointless as it's already high with a std spring.....pointless then

anyway

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

The relief valve may also open at higher rpm's. But i never saw the need for a 'high pressure' spring and my engine has good oil pressure all round.

vroooom ptssssh

before oil is up to full temp yes, but once warmed up Id be surprised if a CVH had more than 5 bar when revved,

DazC

iTrader: (1)

You'd be surprised Dave. Autodata states something like 2.8bar of pressure at 2k rpm for a CVH engine when warm so higher RPM will produce quite a bit more.

I'd replace all your crank shells looking at those pictures too as they are showing signs of wear. Definitely had oil pressure issues looking at those shells. Replacement isn't necessary but advisable. The crank looks fine though.

vroooom ptssssh

Yea you may be right Daz!

The shells and crank are fresh, the marks I wouldn't say is "wear" as such as the car literally was started 3 or 4 times, never drove or revved hard and when oil light came on it was never left to run, but would still of had some oil pressure! I don't think you'll ever get a shell without those marks even after one start up from new and if you removed to inspect, certainly none i've ever saw. the plastiguage was done right on the mark as you can see and still well within tollerance. shells probably not even bedded in properly yet!

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

In a perfect engine the shells would have ZERO markings, ime any mark is a bad mark. Yours don't look terrible and will work fine but they are evidence of low oil pressure.

Rob,

DazC

iTrader: (1)

Dave,

Those marks are wear marks. A hydrostatic bearing only ever comes into contact with the 2 faces on start up and shut down. Once oil is present, the bearing enters a full-film state where by the crank runs in oil and not in contact with the bearing shell. Those marks you have are typical of an engine having done several thousand miles. It will be fine but they will be worn out sooner than the rest of the engine. Shells don't have to bed in by the way, just the rings.

vroooom ptssssh

Is it possible to have a perfect engine with zero wear marks on shells unless you get oil pressure up everytime before cranking? like a dry sump kit with an electric pump?

Yea it is 'wear' but nothing i'd worry about at all, it would have got those marks regardless of oil light on or not as it had to turn over a fair few times to get oil pressure up in the first place and the only oil would have been assembley lube. I think those marks on the shells are acceptable and I would be surprised if they were still as they came out the packet!
You're right just rings need bedding in.


as I say, oil pressure is fine, plastiguage results are fine (even on the wear marks) so f**k it

DazC

iTrader: (1)

It'll be fine Dave. Don't worry about it. The marks will always appear due to dry start up.

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

No lol, it'll work fine mate.

Rob,

vroooom ptssssh

Don't panic me i've had enough grief with this damn car


Assembled loads of CVH's and it HAD to be mine that had the dodgy oil pump....motherf*cker

DazC

iTrader: (1)

ALWAYS the case Dave! I've assembled loads and who's engine had problems come dyno day?!

vroooom ptssssh

Sod's law isn't it Daz, I've often wished I got rid of it before resto and saved myself 3 years of grief and a fair bit of cash....as now I just feel the cars a chore rather than something I can enjoy..ah well it's done now, hopefully nothing else will break as i've renewed most of it.