samrs1979

hiya all im new too this forum, also too the rs turbo background my mate is selling his rs turbo and im really intrested in it, but is 202bhp @12psi capable from just a 1.6 engine i know he has had alot of work done too it, he has got a big folder full of receipts with pics.

johnandhissaffy

iTrader: (1)

you can get more if you have the money there is loads of people on here that will tell you about these

stevealien

iTrader: (1)

welcome to the site mate.
200 bhp is easily achievable mate,and then some.
do you have full spec?

xr2wishy

iTrader: (2)

sounds like a fair amount of work has already been done to get 202bhp from just 12psi boost.
get the full spec and i'm sure someone will know.

PaulT

It seems a bit misleading to say its easy to get 200bhp, a lot of people think they have 200bhp but normally do not.

samrs1979

thanks for the reply guys much appreciated, i managed too get some spec info from my mate.

1640 cvh full rebuild, with low comp pistons and they have been skimmed, stage 2 head with a ts 013 cam, chipped ecu, stage1 hybrid turbo, full front mount intercooler, cossie fuel pump.

he said alot more but i couldnt keep up lol, he has a power graph and videos of his run on the rolling road so i know he has had it set up, just wondering what the petrol consumption and maintenance is like running a rs turbo around because i will be running it around on a daily basis for work, my mate said it aint bad on fuel depends on how heavy ur foot is, also maintenance is good as most parts are still available for servicing from dealers and motor spares shops. also a rs behaves itself if used regulary if you have parked it up for a while the rs dont like it is this true.

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

No mate, im afraid it will not have 200 brake @12psi... Doesn't mean its not a good car though.

Fuel consumption @ 200bhp is fairly horrendous for a 1.6 on mfi like 18-20mpg. However IMO the first decent mod should be EFI, and a nice side effect will be much better economy (more like 30mpg i imagine), and it will be MUCH more reliable.

Have a look around on here, lots of friendly people who always help out, really good idea to have a very good check for rust. These are old cars now.

Good luck

Rob,

xr2wishy

iTrader: (2)

they're not too bad on fuel if you stay off boost, but it's old technology that's possibly run out of tune.
i had a mere 20mpg or there abouts on average on my rs cab, granted it was running 180bhp ish (can't recall exact figure to be honest), so easy to put the foot down, that's the problem.
the misses didn't get much better economy out of it granny driving.
as said they can run out of tune so need setting up periodically.
much better on efi though.

Ben26

12 psi with low comp pistons ? can u get 200+ bhp with that sort of thing, its like running standard comp pistons at 7-9 psi yea ?

Ben

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

IIRC think Jamsport got 360 @ 22psi???.... but that would have been a lot of work. And using a gt30 i think lol

So no, not on a stage 1 turbo t3.

Rob,

stevealien

iTrader: (1)

not misleading at all.
200bhp is easily achievable.
it might not be cheap,but people been gettin over 200bhp out of a 1.6 cvh turbo for over 20 years mate.
plenty of stuff available to modify or tune a rs with.
so i stand by my comment

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

I think what he means is, loads of people say they have 200 brake when they don't, the amount of times i have been told "yes mate, its 200+ brake" and its always turned out to be shite. Normally 160-170.

200 brake is easy to do (if you know the basics) but easier to say

Rob,

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

Would need to be a well ported head and custom manifolds with somthing like a T34 to make 202bhp at 12psi IMO.

samrs1979

cheers guys for the feedback left me well confused now to be honest lol, the car has been undersealed and has a new m.o.t on it just some rust by the sunroof from what i could see, im taking the car for a test drive tomorrow anything i should be looking out for? also i have queried in a nice way is it running 202bhp, he said he dont mind putting it on the rollers if i pay for it which i dont mind as it will give me some piece of mind.

stevealien

iTrader: (1)

good luck on the test drive mate.
things you should be lookin out for are........
old people
children
roundabouts
police
boy racers

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

Haha, not a bad thing to look out for no!

Knackered gearbox, weak syncros, difficulty putting it into 5th and taking it out @ 50+ mph.

Slipping clutch,

If there is rust around the sun roof there may well be more else where.

Rob,

Rogeyboy

iTrader: (2)

Just buy it m8... You'll love it! Even at 160+Bhp they still fly, don't let the 202bhp be the deal breaker!

luke19790_3

look for rust, because it will cost alot of money to fix.

look around the windsceen. top left/right corners and the lower right is good for rust.
battery tray
fuse box
around the front seat mounts
look under the dash towards the fuse box.
rear arches, may look good untill you remove the bodykit.
if the roof is showing rust on top then under the roof lining will be bad.

Chris69

if hes offered then do it, put it on the rollers.
i very much doubt it will make 202bhp @ 12psi but ya never know.
even with 170 odd bhp(wot mine made@12psi) it will feel pretty quick on the road as they are nice an responsive with the stage 1 t3's on there

Oranoco

The grot round the sunroof would be a bit of a worry but check it out properly. If it's visible from the top they're usually pretty goosed under the lining. Make sure it has the LSD as a lot of owners fit a normal box to save a few quid when the original box lets go.

Rust rust rust and rust, don't expect things to be trouble free, they are an old car now. Saying that though I love mine and won't be parting with it any time soon.

samrs1979

test drive complete and went well, my legs are still shaking im a audi driver and have been for a long while but i have never experienced anything like this there is no funny or weird noises coming from anywhere, gears and steering felt fine suspension felt very tough but the car is lowered with a full suspension kit, feels abit sluggish (flat) when pullin off from first gear but once ur going you keep going also the gauge in the borner is going up to 12psi, also did a long check around the car looks like its just the roof that has rust bubbling up, battery and fusebox area are good also checked the boot lifted up the carpet and its ok.

bad bits, have been told i need bigger brakes for the front what would i need? also washer jets are kinda blocked would ford still have them? also ideally would need a set of front seats as they look twisted inwards, im also thinkin of a full repray how much am i looking at?

Canada1

A well engineered 1.6 cvh could certainly make 202 hp @ 12 psi boost!

Most cvh builds are not well engineered - Home porting (no flow testing or any idea how to reshape ports), camshafts not set up properly (degree wheel install), standard restrictive exhaust and muffler, poorly set up efi of mfi.

I think that is why there are many people who doubt high HP claims.
However, this one could certainly be a good build.
Maybe you should take it to a good RR facility and test it. Then you will know if it is 202 hp at the wheels, or at the flywheel, or not at all.

Cheers

stevealien

iTrader: (1)

for brakes mate,you can upgrade to cossie brakes.
bigger calipers and discs.
4x4 calipers and 2wd discs,virtually a straight swap to fit em.
theres a sticky on it at the top of the rs page.
washers jets easy fix mate.
new pattern pump is only about £6 if its that.
more than likely the heads are blocked with polish,so just need to put a pin down em.
paint job,well,atleast a grand and up to 2 grand depending on what you want mate.

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

Perry, question. Have you ever seen a cvh making 200 bhp at the wheels with 12psi of boost and a .36 exhaust housing? Its in my opinion physically impossible. Im not being difficult etc. but you keep bringing up diy heads, flow testing etcetc. But a good 'off the shelf head' in the UK which has been extensively developed in both real life situations and on the flow bench doesn't give the power increase you quote. Without a few other very important things at least.

I would LOVE to see this done, and would genuinely like to be corrected as it would be one hell of an achievement and well worthy of praise. Always wondered, are you a mechanical engineer btw?

Rogeyboy

iTrader: (2)

I would love to see a CVH on 12psi doing 200bhp... I hoping for 160-170 on my 12psi once im all set-up etc. So maybe once its setup and running well i could get a well ported head and a decent cam and another setup to see nearer to the 200bhp barrier, staying on 12psi?

Tezla82

@12.32 psi mine should have 170.4 hk with another cam and a chip... I was told! (and some other tweeks I guess?)
I got it on a rolling road and it showed 159 hk and 241 nm, and some told me the chip was out and standard cam.

As Rogeyboy mentions, I would like to stay low on boost too.
I'm aiming for 200+ hk some day.......... some day.

Stu.C

Hi all. I'm running a stage 2 on a 1640 and mine makes 200bhp at 14psi... MFI

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

Thing is mate there is such a difference in dyno accuracy that could mean anything from 170bhp-230bhp
Whats your full spec and what Dyno was it on?

Rogeyboy

iTrader: (2)

There is alot of inaccuracys on a rolling road, unless you use the same rollers all the time, even then there must be some error margin!
I would love a genuine 200bhp/200lbsft engine running 16psi max! How easily is that achievable?

Stu.C

Here is the spec of my engine hope this answers any questions..1640cc, wossner low comp pistons, power enginering big valve head and cam, uprated fuel pump, -31 actuator stage2 t3, ahmed bayjoo chip, pace rad, airtec charge cooler, grp a coil, piper air filter, mongoose exhaust. the dyno was at power enginering 200bhp and 206 lbs/ft peak torque..

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

I'll never say never. But fair enough. As some one once told me, believe none of what you hear and half of what you see.

Not saying it doesn't etc, i just think we would see more cars with over 350 bhp from major tuners, which really isn't a common sight! and thats normally well over 20psi! with a pretty large less restrictive turbo.

Rob,

samrs1979

sorry guys i didnt want to cause any trouble or dispute on here, was only after some advice as im buying my first rs and didnt want to end up with a shed that would cost me loads to put right again, also quick question for you guys i forgot to mention it earlier when i went for the test drive i noticed the turbo was kicking in over 2000rpm is this normal? the car is booked in for the morning for a rolling road in birmingham as my mate uses this guy regulary for his other rs. even if the car doesnt put out 202bhp and its somewere close will prob end up getting it anyway kinda fallen in love with it now lol, just wana say thanks for all the links and advice.

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

lol No no mate, essentially i think we would all agree that no matter what power they make rs turbo's are a fun car to own. They have a few snags, and problems (like any old car) but there are loads of people always willing to help etc.

They normally tick over around 900-1000 rpm when warm. when cold 1500rpm isn't unusual. Easy to adjust, but make sure its not masking another problem.

I went to see mine, block wouldn't budge on price, i overlooked a lot of stuff wrong with it, like not starting lol and fell in love with it, talked my self into it and paid the asking price (mug), have since spend many times over the asking price restoring it LOL, so im probably not the best person to be dishing out buying advice!

Good luck what ever you end up doing,

Rob,

Canada1

Wether or not the car makes 170 hp or 200 hp, it will be fun to drive.
As previously mentioned dyno results are just for bench racing.
A true 170 or 180 hp (or 200 hp) front wheel drive Escort will be a very exciting car to drive.

Cheers

Canada1

I am not sure if anyone claimed 200 hp at the wheels. That would be a 230 or 240 flywheel power. 200 wheel HP would certainly be a fantastic achievement - not attainable with 12 psi boost on a cvh 1.6. I assumed the thread starter was talking about flywheel HP. Here in Canada flywheel HP is what we normally measure - and I assumed many of the RR in the UK do a flywheel HP conversion as well.

I am a physicist btw - also many years of street and race engine building

stevealien

iTrader: (1)

FROM NOW MY PENIS IS 12.
you can decide wether im talking cm or inches

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

Pretty easy as I'm at 231bhp running 19psi, I imagine if I drop 3psi I may still be around the 200bhp mark.
But to achieve that power I have a £1000 NMS head and cam setup, high CR and can only run 99RON fuel so it isn't cheap to do.
This was on APT's Dyno Dynamics rolling road which is renowned for breaking hearts when it comes to BHP figures lol

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

Unfortunately we normally quote fly wheel too, i thought canada would have been more likely to quote wheel

It certainly would be a fantastic achievement! One i would very much like to see. Perry have you ever looked into the ford SPI2000 head, the twin port design for the cvh.





Never seen one, US/Canada only i think, but they are an interesting concept!. Lean burn type chamber, with slit port promoting extra swirl.

Rob,

Canada1

Hi Steve,

There is a difference between flywheel HP and wheel HP. Sometimes the two get mixed.
Most RR dyno graphs I have seen show a "calculated" flywheel HP figure.
This is because it is a larger value, and we all like bigger numbers.

Cheers

Canada1

Hello Rob,

I certainly have looked at the split port head.
It has a couple of issues - powdered metal valve seats which fail in NA applications.
Also the intake manifold choice is poor. There have been a couple of US guys that have had some success using this head on the 2 liter engine.