JONO_RST

Hi, i'm new to the forums and to the zetec conversion, i bought G849 JEY, red Escort rs turbo s2 earlier this year off AJC, to reshell F66 BFV, my white s2.
I am looking to convert it to run zetec power, but from experience which is the better engine to convert and what differences are there between the black top and the silver top? Any help would be appreciated.

CheeRS Jono.

Rick

Silver top is easier to fit as engine mount is the same, but the black top is a better engine.

Rick

szabyk RST

iTrader: (1)

Why???

szabyk RST

iTrader: (1)

silver top...

dave_s2_rst

iTrader: (2)

I think it has something to do better lubrication of the cam? in a black top

12_Second_rst

iTrader: (1)

wrong


the blacktop has solid lifters and a better flowing head

but has shallower main caps than a silvertop

the as mentioned above the silvertop is easier to mount and also is able to run a front mounted alternator without having to purchase additional idlers etc to stop the pump going backwards

szabyk RST

iTrader: (1)

never had a problem with lubrication ..I will have more engines...136-650+bhp...all silver top..
but the black top engine structure weaker .....

QplateRST!

Silver top all the way for me!

dave_s2_rst

iTrader: (2)

still learning !

DazC

iTrader: (1)

The black top engine had a better rod ratio allowing it to rev more freely and harder/higher.

If I was to build a Zetec Turbo, the black top is the engine I would use.

massivewangers

iTrader: (1)

How many turbo Silver Tops have had oil pump failure, totalling the bottom end?

I'm planning a ZT build, I've got a 2.0 silver top sitting there but I'm very dubious about using it because of the oil pump issues you hear about!

12_Second_rst

iTrader: (1)

black tops suffer the same problems iirc

szabyk RST

iTrader: (1)

this problem is the same for both type..(7500+prm or 400+bhp)

massivewangers

iTrader: (1)

Who's had a black top fail like that?

I've only heard of silver tops doing it, not even necessarily using big revs or over 400bhp?

project rs

the way i see it is if ford had been totally happy with the silver top then they would of not spent millions to develop it into the blacktop and as of yet the only real advantage of the engines strength is the main caps are stronger in the silver but as far as i'm aware of no one has had them fail in the blacktop yet so until it happens i think all the other benifits of the blacktop as mentioned above out way that for a mild tuned engine before you get into porting heads or using different cams etc just straight rod and piston swaps with some valve springs them the blacktop will give you better results but if you are planning a big build then either will make the figures as we've seen as paul j's and boosty's both make over 500 horses and are of the 2 varieties

andy130

iTrader: (2)

Focus rs's pumps failed

JONO_RST

Thanks for all the information guys, most of you are saying the black top is a stronger engine, but if i got a silver top could i not just put a brand new oil pump in it before i fit it to my car to save any issues?

CheeRS Jono.

rapid3door

ive always used silver tops seem to last longer

mattseries2

iTrader: (1)

Luca's did! I may be wrong but i think his 1st zt was a black top and that failed.

andy130

iTrader: (2)

am nearly 100% sure his was a sivler top

mattseries2

iTrader: (1)

You might be right there actually...im getting confused.

Dont listen to me lol

andy130

iTrader: (2)

why had you a black top fail on you?

SiZT

The rod ratio is only a benefit if the stock rods are kept. Blacktop has a stronger block but weak main caps, Billet steel main caps are available but there expensive.

andy130

iTrader: (2)

do you know of one that has had main caps fail?

clarke5700

me!! well mates zt we ran it up on the dyno (mapping) did a pull to around 7k no more made 380odd and the oil presure gauge was flashing pump shattered

clarke5700

yes. oil pump that is lol

clarke5700

100% was and still is

clarke5700

tbh strenth wise there is not enouth in it. ive built blacktop zt's and silvertop zt's as for the oil pump it dosent matter ive seen a oil pump fail in under 500 miles with a 7k rev limit

Rick

black top caps are smaller as the crankcase is much stiffer. Was totally redesigned by Ford, things don't move backwards. You won't break a main cap.

Rick

jonny s2

iTrader: (12)

you can get better remade caps for the blacktops, every engine has its down fall to be fair lol, both are just as good

essexRSTSouthend

Even with everything said,ive always been told go silver top by pec.

SiZT

I've heard a number of Yank ones have had crank walk and one even cracked a main cap

Thats because Silvertop's fit easily into RST's

essexRSTSouthend

Yay but also better power gains.id have to speak to him at pec about how it better.get the facts as it were.

rsmark86

iTrader: (3)

just save money and put an frs mk1 engine in they have seen 400bhp with head work and cams and with the right management and turbo ect.....

saves alot of hassle....

massivewangers

iTrader: (1)

Not quite sure how they came to that conclusion. The black top has a better cylinder head for a start...

Does that save money? Most I've seen are quite expensive. I considered that route, but the only one I've seen for sale lately was Ł1800 without any manifolds, so not much of a saving is it?

essexRSTSouthend

Massivewangers : Thats what i hopefully plan to find out .Considering he designs and builds engines,im hoping he knows what he's saying lol.So hopefully ill hear back from him soon.

The focus engine,mmmm i would love to.Great engine .Some reason love the mk1 focus rs.Love to have one,,,one day

essexRSTSouthend

Use the black top cylinder head and block with silver top rods and pistons
as the black top has a better cylinder head and stronger block. silver top rods and pistons are slightly stronger than black tops.
So black top,not silver.The official wording from family friend that works at pec.hope that helps.

phil_focus

how are aftermarket silver top rods and pistons stronger than aftermarket black top rods and pistons??

don't get that!!

essexRSTSouthend

Or do i but thats what im told.im guessing he ment oem.ive just pasted exactly what he told me.
I always thought forged item would be as strong as another forged item unless he talking of rod design differences or cr .

phil_focus

i would have thought that say a pec H section forged rod for a black top zetec would be the same strength as a silver top. i also thought the only difference between the silver top and black top rods and pistons is that one has a longer rod and shorter piston than the other and therefore you can put black top rods and pistons in a silver top...or i'm chatting complete shit