Raj B

I have a dilema,

im having a zvh bottom end built for me soon, but there are 2 companies offering me different options.

One is a standard block with wossner forged pistons and standard rods & crank.
The other is a new but standard block, new standard crank, eagle steel rods and je forged pistons.

The second engine is £200 more thank the first engine. The car will be running around 14-18 psi with the goal of around 225bhp with loads of torque.

I have never used any of these makes so any advice would be great

SWITCHBLADE

iTrader: (5)

for £200 more you get steel rods etc, go for that, ive got a bottom end with je pistons and eagle rods, i havent used it yet but the previous owner ( jamesS2RS ) got good power from it and turboboss ( sean ) on here uses the same.

dave.

Raj B

will the handle a bit of stick, say a bar of boost maybe 18psi???

What sort of power did those other lads get?
cheers for the reply mate

Charlie Chalk

iTrader: (1)

If your only after 225bhp, I don't see the point in going ZVH, A standard but fresh built CVH will do just that with the right mods.

Raj B

very true, but a zvh will hardly be working to produce that power, plus the torque lower down the rev range will be much greater. Ive had 3 rs turbo's all around 200 bhp and the power is usually near top end, so im after a fast engine with great reliability and low down power (if there is such a thing.lol)

mk3cab

im running 2.1 zvh using c2o xe forged pistons and standard rods @ 16 psi with 267 bhp. having the low down power is usless even on a hot summers day i cant get grip in first and second and struggles in third at 3000 rpm. im going for full zetec next year for more equal power throuout the rev range.

SWITCHBLADE

iTrader: (5)

the engine ive got made 300bhp and 360lb/ft mate at 26 psi peak and holding 24 psi, i think turboboss ( sean ) made even more than that, pm him buddy and he will give you some good info, let me know what he says !!!!!. but like i said, for only an extra £200, if you are wanting a zvh then id def pay it seeing as you get steel rods etc.

dave.

pa_sjo

As long as the Wossner pistons are the low-compression version for the zetec, then that's the better option really for what you want.. cheeeep!

Standard rods are good to, well, I don't know anyone who has broken one on a well-tuned car (up to 300bhp)..

Raj B

well that serves you right for being greedy!!! 267bhp? your mental lol, thats a lot of horses, im trying to stick with a figure of 225 - 230 so its not too powerful that it will be munching gearboxes. Have you uprated your gearbox? what is the car like on the road compared to other cars in 4th and 5th?

My gearbox is only mildly uprated with uprated bearings, but still standard cogs and v-lsd

imbarrassed any lush motors?

mk3cab

standard gearbox waiting for it to break tho lol, first and second are usless 3rd is awsome once it grips and 4th and 5th aint bad either. i cant realy explain the gears much but over a half mile length from standing start it pulls up to 125mph then i need a 6th. what management you gonna be running?

mk3cab

what type of lush motors? the only one that has give me a propper run was an evo, things like astra vxr (238bhp) are an easy chlange in a strait line.

Raj B

the cheaper gotech ecu, think its called mfi pro or maybe the mini, the only difference is that its slightly newer software and there are more features such as lauch control, boost controller, nti lag etc. These are features I just wouldnt useso pointless having it. As for lush cars, things like scoobies etc, my bro has a sti prodrive 305 bhp and my sis has a standard evo8 260bhp, would be nice to be able to keep up with them in a straight line

mk3cab

the evo i sat with was running around 400bhp. after the transfer and gear box and the extra weight i cant see why you wouldn't. just dont race them from a standing start.

Raj B

lol, did you weld the head on your zvh? one of the guys who maybe building my block has recommended having the head welded so that a zetec metal gasket can be used instead of a felpro gasket

mk3cab

pluged the block and used the felpro head gasket. how much are you paying to get the engine built?

Raj B

1100 - wossner pistons
1300 - je pistons/eagle steel rods

what you reckon?

they both sound like top guys so its decision time

one thing is the compression ration, the wossner pistons will be 8:0:1
is this any good? dont know what compression the je will be

pa_sjo

The Wossners will be roughly 8:1 on a 16v engine, it'd be considerably lower with a CVH head due to the enlarged combustion chamber. Same applies to the JE's. You will never know what the CR will be until you actually measure it.

Raj B

can anyone work it out if I determine the cc of the head? its going to a specialist nxt week for a clean and skim (if required) and they said they will tell me the cc

pa_sjo

Depends if you want to guess your engine or KNOW it? There is only one way to KNOW, and that is to do a dummy build and measure it. Personally I think you'd be a fool not to.

Raj B

well im not into guess work, is there not z way of working the ratio out with out dummy building i.e. burton power can machine pistons to suite sny rstio sd long as they know the cc of the head. Only reason is that I already have a stage 3 race head and the block is being built miles away from me so it would make sence to have any machining done when the block was being built instead of me taking it apart again. Plus I havnt got a clue how to work out c/ratios or more to the point which ones are best and what are to low - high.lol

pa_sjo

Not accurately, no.

packman

Ive done a zetec turbo , that just had the XE pistons standard rods and ARP rod bolts that made 272 hp and 312 ft at 3k at 19 psi .

Raj B

Thats not what I wanted to hear! burton told me that it would be fine, well I would rather take your word for it as im sick of performance suppliers spinning me a long one just to get a sale, do you know how I can work this out if I so a dummy build? I want to get it right first time. I think I will put another post up in a bit about what sort of comp ration to go for.
Cheers mate

Raj B

that quality results! is it drivable or a tad too much power? thats bout 50bhp more than what I am aiming for, CRAZY!! lol

orion_crazy_carl

iTrader: (3)

im going zetec turbo to,was told the zetec rods are no good after 250bhp?

Raj B

i think its each man to his own, some say 250 some say 300, its all up to you, but for the extrac piece of mind I would recommend going steel. Ive decided to go for forged pistons and steel h section rods, the zvh block is costing me 1300 to be built with new block, new (standard) crank, pumps and heavy dudty bearings. the engine is rated at over 450bhp so should be pretty reliable (but it is a ford.lol)

orion_crazy_carl

iTrader: (3)

TBH i was gonna stick with stock bottom end to start with,least if it goes pop its a easy replacement job,rather not kill a set of steel rods and pistons,lol

mk3cab

im running 267 bhp on standard rods, as long as its been corectly set up then i dont know of any std rods letting go.

orion_crazy_carl

iTrader: (3)

thats good,i only want around 230 with the stuff i will have,that should hold together for a while

mk3cab

if it was me i would not use steel rods unless i was aiming for 300 but if that may be an option in the long run then it would be worth doing it now. if not i would use c20 let pistons cheep(second hand) and forged. need slight machining to accept the rods.

wardchris

I ran standard rods on full zetec with a t34 hybrid running 20psi polished ported head grs intercooler etc and they never let go but were pushed to the limits when i stripped the engine to replace for steel and forged pistons you could see the little end of the rod discoloured through heat and thats where they will go, if your aiming for 300 or above i would recommend steel rods, as for crank the standard crank is very strong but will only take up to 400bhp.

grsford

iTrader: (3)

go steel rods and have the peice of mind that they wont let go!

wardchris

£1300 for steel rods and forged pistons sounds good Raj i would just ask about the compression and as i said if you need any advice just give us a nod pal.

orion_crazy_carl

iTrader: (3)

are the they the vauxhall xe ones?calibra turbo ones?
they worth using with the hassle of having them modded to fit the zetec rod??

Raj B

the geezer doing the build has said the compression ratio will be around 8:0 if that maks any sense, I have no idea about compression ratio's or which one to go for, I have found another company though who will alter my head to give any compression ratio I want without touching the pistons, but I dont know how to work out the exact cc of the block. God this is all sooo complicated.lol

Chris did I speak to you on the phone?

wardchris

Hi sorry to butt in again, i built numerous engines and ran the vauxhall pistons pal they sit further down on the gudgen pin dropping the compression by sitting further down the cylinder but people often overlook the under piston oil cooling spray bars which the zetec needs. I have found that when given alot of boost the pistons movement knocks these bars off when you build the engine the clearence between the piston and the cooling bar is minimal, when i have stripped other customers engines down who have come to me saying they have melted number 3 due to fuel and air being wrong its turned out to be no spray bars which will cause the piston to get too hot not the mixture. sorry if i am going on and interfering

Raj B

that answers my question, could do with giving you a ring after pal

wardchris

Hi Raj that compressin ratio sounds ok but you will be safer getting a dummy build done the reason being with the xe conversions the piston is sat down the cylinder so there is no chance of clipping the valves where as the forged piston needs to be measured acurate because the piston will sit flush with the block and the compression will be lowered in the bowl depending on the piston. I have had the cambelt slip on a full zetec due to silly powder coated verniers and it never touched a valve because of how the piston sits in the cylinder .

Raj B

this may sound daft, dummy build = put head on with the head bolts fully tightened? then turn the crank a few times???

Sorry if this makes me "sound a bit fik"

wardchris

Give us a call if ya want anytime pal.