Fiecos Dan

As my xr2 suffers from coolant temps on the last few trackdays,
i was wondering what other Trackday RST boy's run to keep their engine cool.


My xr2 is used very hard on the track with slicks, and i run between 190 - 220+bhp on the track on a 1.6 cvh turbo.


Up till now i've been using a xr2 rad, (same size core as a std RST)
(tried new copper and alloy cored rads) and after 5-8 mins into a hard session out on the track, the coolant reaches 95oC and fan cuts in,

i've tried different new stat's, and also running with out stat, and even had the fan on from the start of a session, and still the same.

The turbo coolant's disconnected to aid the temps, and oil temp is about 105oC.


Did look at fitting my spare cossie rad, but i havent got the width,
and also looked at a Alloy RST rad, but a mates got a pace item, and he suffers the same.


So is there a common upgrade larger rad off another car?

rstdave

iTrader: (3)

To be honest mate, mine suffered badly last year runnin standard rad, was in the red after 5 hard laps of combe. Changed to a pace one, flushed the whole system through and added a bottle of 'redline water wetter' into the mix and made a substantial difference to the temps the next time i went out on the same track! Temps didn't go much above halfway on the gauge and that was in warm weather givin it a good hidin! Don't really know how much difference the water wetter made but to be fair i really do think it helped, as well as the new rad. Strange cos some people seem to have the problem even with an alloy rad....strange

Rick

95 derees is nothing Dan..

SafeChav

Have you got the bumper restricting the rad at the moment though?

Fiecos Dan

i wonder if it was the flushing or the wetter water, but the std gauge isn't the best item to go by.
Did your fan cut in at all?

it didn't stop at 95, it reaches 100oC in a lap or so more, then stays at 99-101oC which is too high.


i dont want to be seeing more than 90-92oC.



Here's whats the front flow's like.

sas

Hi Dan, when I use to run the Pug 306 GTI production touring cars, approx 250 bhp N/A. Our water temps were around 110 deg and our oil 120 deg. for the duration of the race. No problems.
We used normal mobil 1

If you thought that all your water pipes and rad were upto it you could fit a stronger header tank cap a 25psi one, this would allow the system to store more heat without increasing the temp.

PS, nice set-up patch under the Festa.

Simon.

Rick

90-92? You've got no chance. As Simon says, upto 110water and 120 oil are common on track. Sure Mike R runs upto 112 water on his cos.

Matt Evans

I fitted a pro alloy rad to my S2 track day car, (1.9 240bhp), and it never went above half way, even on open pit lane days at donnington (typically out for 25 - 30 mins)

Best mod i ever made, but not cheap. Fitted perfectly though!

Tim

iTrader: (1)

95 deg max on mine on the secs mon pro alloy rad 110 to 120 i'd be worried about the head alloy going soft imo

Rick

95 is pretty impressive. Where does the SECS read from? Is it a sensor in the inlet manifold? That's loads cooler than taking a reading at the head.

gus

iTrader: (1)

secs read the same as what the ecu sees

Rick

Yes i know, but i dont know where a cossie managed RST has its coolant sensor for the ECU.... On KE and OFAshit it's from the inlet manifold...

Tim

iTrader: (1)

Yes inlet from the water inlet at the back but ive also had thermo couples on the headface and never seen over 100 EVER if my car was aover 100 it would be in the red on my gauge never ever ever been there max recorded on track was 95 fans cut in at 91 and out at 88 i think dunno cannot remember but the alloy rad made a MASSIVE diff i was shocked

Tim

iTrader: (1)

that was at 2 bar on track

rstdave

iTrader: (3)

Fiecos Dan: I know the normal gauge isn't that accurate but it still showed up the massive difference before and after i fitted the alloy rad. Fans didn't cut in, i've got a seperate switch that i always flick on when i'm doin the cool down lap. As well as that the rad i had before wasn't old. In reference to the water temps, i agree that over 100 isn't ideal but my mates s1 track car that we use runs at around 110 when gettin abused on track....and to be fair it's never actually caused any problems, it's purely a track car and only ever gets thrashed!

Fiecos Dan

Cheers,

but i'm not happy running a cvh at those temps, as i've had 2 h/g's go when over 98oC.

i have a 18psi cap on there at the mo (tested) and it does start to leak at the end of a track session


ps, thats my old setup patch, i now have turn plates. But will be re leveling the garage when i get round to it.

My cossie does 92oC dueing 30oC ambients, and 30min+ sessions.





i tried many places to read the coolant, and i found the most accurate, with out getting heat soak from the head, is the lower pipe on the Stat housing going to the oil cooler, about 50mm away from stat.


once you flushed the system, does the fan cut in and out at the same points on the gauge?

rstdave

iTrader: (3)

once you flushed the system, does the fan cut in and out at the same points on the gauge?
Yeah, fans still cut in as they should, I've got fairly good airflow to me radiator as well considering it's a front mount. Dropped the intercooer down instead of havin it sat tight to the rad like most people seem to do, probably a 4 inch gap between rad and cooler. Defo recommend alloy rad and good flush through


[/quote]

Fiecos Dan

My coolant system is always fresh, and coolant system is all clean.

Inter is best placed 5-10mm away from Rad, with insulation strip to force air thro.

Bomber

Have you thought of running the rad in the boot, using an EWP to circulate the water to relieve the mechanical pump off flowing all that extra water and using perspex side windows with large naca ducts flowing to the radiator?

Obviously you would need to cut a flap in the boot floor to allow the air to escape - but you could also create a windage tray underneath to 'draw' the air out...

Fiecos Dan

Not a option,

as its my daily drive, and need the interior and boot space.

rstdave

iTrader: (3)

Tis strange that.....bite the bullet and get yourself an alloy rad i reckon, seems like u've done everythin else u can do! Good airflow round the rad did make a difference on mine as well, stops heatsoak. Havin said that airflow's not generally a problem when you're doin over 100 on track, but there is massive heat building up where the turbo's gettin worked so hard. Heat lagged the turbo???

Fiecos Dan

my turbo not lagg'd, and nor will i do it, as it will cause the turbo to get too hot.


Airflow Matters what track, as my local track isn't very fast, lap ave of 45mph, with 2x straights of 95mph in xr2, 115 in cossie.

SafeChav

Hard to see properly in that picture but there doesnt look to be a great deal of air flow to the rad.....

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

Mine runs a standard rad.

Had 2 cases recently where I have recommended that the customer remove their Alloy rad and fit a standard rad and both customers have come back to me to say the cooling is SO much better.

SafeChav

Stands to reason really

gus

iTrader: (1)

why and how?

SafeChav

The thermal properties of copper are far superior to aluminium........

gus

iTrader: (1)

right got ya,

Rick

Only reason i can think that people get a benifit from the alloy rad is that it's new and clean.

Also, the XR2 bay is pretty cramped, and im sure that will make a difference. I'd certainly be very interested if you do change the rad. I still think a lot of it is where the temp is measured. Example, ive had thermcouples on the head and it never goes near 100, but the water as it exits the head past the last exhaust valve etc can get hotter. Never done any track work in mine, so it's never been properly stressed.

SafeChav

...........and is replacing a 15 year old knackered copper one

You know the score

Fiecos Dan

Do you do trackdays?


the other reason for changing to a alloy rad, is the end tanks dont split or jump off (done this to me last year @ Brands, and took a the head gasket with it)

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

Yes, I do, but not that many at the moment as the car spends more time in development that on the road!!

However, I have never had a problem with cooling whether on the road, track or runway. Last years problem didn't stem from the rad, I'm fairly sure of that.

NUTS RuS

iTrader: (35)

I have NEVER run or never needed to run an alloy rad in years of competition

ECU tells the fan to come on at 97 and switch it off at 92.

I have a manual override switch on it, if I feel the need.

Whats the water pump like ?

Rick - you still owe me for my spare one yet

Fiecos Dan

water pumps fairly fresh ford item, and blades are not worn.

NUTS RuS

iTrader: (35)

Any pipe work restrictions / tight bends ?

Look at the system before a necessary change of hardware

Fiecos Dan

All fine.

its running a full Xr2 coolant system as it left the factory.

Rick

Tony - yes i do

Well, i'll be rich soon with my first so can line your pockets with gold...

Rick

And... if my memory servers my correctly, at Croft changing gear at 8700, Tony's car runs 220F - 104.5C.

Tim

iTrader: (1)

also the alloy rads dont bow like the standard ones

Fiecos Dan

The rad is exposed to flow, apart from the parts covered by front panel, bonnet and cossie intercooler. So unless i start chopping out the panel or re hinge the bonnet, i cant improve it.

Flow out of the engine bay is good.