MarkXr

I’ve got a strange overheating problem with my 2.0 ZVH turbo’d Escort Mk4.

Car has got a total rebuilt, ALL parts of the cooling system are new except for the heater matrix.

Running a GRS front mounted intercooler and a GRS alloy rad with one Kenlowe fan and an original ’88 spec front bumper.

The problem is that the cooling system does not work sufficient enough. It will always run too hot.
After a while the temp gauge rises up to a little above half way and the fan kicks in. So far so good but temps remain rising, whether I’m running the car stationairy at idle or doing 75 on the motorway. Doesn’t matter a thing. Temps aren’t dropping no matter what!

Surely you lot gonna say I have to fit a second Kenlowe but if driving 75 on the motorway, it should have enough air flow due to the driving wind, am I wrong??

Read a lot topics here so I reckon you are going to say that I have to fit a thermostat and Thermo switch which will activate at lower temperatures but since the temperature keeps on rising no matter what, in my opinion it will only slow down the overheating process, am I wrong??

Quite desperate now, just got my car MOT’d since 2 and a half year and now I can’t drive my Escort for longer periods at a time because of this heat problem……

The engine itself is running great, starting fine and going like a rocket @ 14psi. Only not for a long time since it doesn’t get rid of it’s heat….

By the way, ambient temps are 25C at the moment.


Hopefully you guys can come up with some suggestions of maybe someone has experienced the same thing and knows how to solve it?!?


RegardS,
Mark

ivorbiggun

Is the fan in front of the grs or in between grs and radiator?

MarkXr

In between the both of them.

ivorbiggun

Thermostat opening?
If not sure take it out and stick in a mug of recently boiled water

MarkXr

Should be opening since it's a new one.

In the process of thinking about it I'm doubting myself now for putting the thermostat in the wrong way round. Just took it out of my old 3i lump and I'm not sure I put it in the ZVH the same way.

Should it work faulty if it's in the wrong way? (rad is getting hot though)

Think I'll jump into some old clothes and let off the coolant to have a look...

(I'll keep you informed....)

philcab

ive been havin the same problem with mine and ive change everything on mine for all new bit had engine rebuilt had evrything checked over and i stil dont know wat the problem is.

MarkXr

Thermostat turns out to be the right way in and if exposed to boiling water working just fine...

Gonna try running it for some time without a thermostat in it.

Only thing is the coolant looks quit dirty after just driving 250 miles after first start. Don't know if it's some old dirt from the engine and hoses that has soluted or the head gasket is leaking hot gases into the water system....

Anyone who's got any ideas, feel free to help me out!

Chris69

doesn't sound normal mate, maybe ur head gasket has failed- just hope its that and nothing more serious
does the header tank smell of petrol and/or build up alot of pressure when just at idle?

Gregor

Hej Mark,

Sounds linke my problem...

wasn't it because it was running verry lean like u said on Ford world?

Changed some stuf to my ZVH so hope the gearbox comes soon so i can try it again...

BTW.. my coolant also looked quit dirty... maybe a zvh problem or so??

What head gasket are u running?

Grtzzz

Gregor

MarkXr

Hi Greg,


We'll keep it in English so the rest can follow.....

I thought it was running very lean but whe've adjusted the settings and it's getting plenty of fuel.

I just let it run for some time at idle to see what it does without any thermostat and it looks as if it cools a bit better! Gonna take it out for a spin in a couple of minutes!

Maybe a second fan would solve the problem but I can't see how because on the motorway it stayed hot as well with all the headwind on it's nose......

As for your overheating problem, I've read your post and you are saying that your fan is switching on and off, this means that the coolant temps are OK!
Probably a fooked temp sender/dash gauge or just the wrong combination of sender and gauge.

BTW, I'm using a Felpro head gasket.

See you @ the meetings,
Mark

ivorbiggun

Fan blowing thru rad and not back thru i/c?

MarkXr

No, checked it many times and it's running the right way round!

Took it for a spin this evening and noticed a little difference with the thermostat out. But still not enough cooling power.

Know for sure now that the problem lies within the cooling capacity and not the engine producing way too much heat because when I turn the heater and blower on full chat it stays at the right temperature. If I do this and take the car out on the motorway thus revving over 3k all the time the engine produces too much heat for the heater matrix to carry away and temps will climb again.

Looks like my GRS radiator doesn't dissipate much heat, even when doing 75 on the motorway with a lot of headwind.
Surely the rad isn't internally blocked because it becomes hot everywhere.

It's a bit of a pain in the arse since I spend lots of money on the GRS cooling equipment just to be sure that the whole lot doesn't get too hot and now it turns out it just isn't working.........

The intercooler by the way works perfectly. Warm/hot on the turbo side, all the way cooled down on the engine side!

antony215

Sounds like you need another fan mate ive always found it best if you have a front mounted intercooler to fit two fans as the intercooler blocks ALOT of the cool air getting to the rad

ivorbiggun

Possibly an air lock. At 75mph the airflow will be sufficient to cool assuming
the cooling system is operating correctly.

When cold try removing return (small) hose from header tank and pour more water into the tank to see if water comes out of end of small hose/if not you've got an airlock.

MarkXr

Yep coolant comes out of the small hose. Also when the car runs you can see that coolant returns to the header tank via this hose. Specially when revving it a bit.
Don't understand a thing of it anymore

Not trying to say your wrong mate but do you also need 2 fans switched on if driving on the motorway? Always thought they were needed for low speeds.
Anyone over here got cooling problems at high speed without the second fan?

If I knew for sure a second fan would solve the issue i'd order one right away but it's so fuckin weird that it's still overheating (maybe more) at higher speeds!

MarkXr

Just sended an e-mail to Graham from GRS, maybe he knows anything.

Gregor

Hej Mark,

Sure your temp is getting this high? is the fan on all the time?
Maybe you're just getting a false reading on your gauge or have u got an extra water temp gauge mounted?
Otherwise an airbubble in the system..
rst's seem to have that problem.......

As for mine... just foud out the wire on the temsender is fooked... gonna fix it and start the engine seeing how the heat is now...

Hope u sort it soon..

Grtzz

MarkXr

No Greg, unfortunately it's not the sender/gauge.

The fan kicks in and won't switch off anymore. Also no air in the system I guess because there is coolant flowing out of the thermostat housings top hose back into the header tank.

I think the cooling system is plumbed up right and working OK because when I turn the heater on with heating fan on full chat it makes a great difference in cooling. Looks like the radiator doesn't get rid of any heat even not if driving 75MPH.
And normally you would say at that speed the fan or fans shouldn't switch on at all.

Also the radiator is getting hot so no blocked core there......

Engine is running superb in starting, idling, power and no weird sounds. All is great, especially since it's my first engine build ever. It just isn't cooling properly at all........

(some pics showing the engine bay for entertainment)

Gregor

Mark,

How hot does your rst get and doesn't the fan stop at all..

Just let mine idle for about half an hour to 45 mins as i can't drive it.
Temps get in the middle of the red and the "n" .
Fan kicks in and stays on a long time, then stops but begins a minute later.. temps seem to be stable but don't know how they are when drinving now.
ow yea i've got a 82degrees thermostat fitted..

Have u heard from grs yet??

Grtzz

MarkXr

Greg,


My fan won't stop anymore, in fact even stays on when driving around, even at high speeds.

If your fan kicks in and stops your Okay! Your temp sender/gauge are fucked or you're running the wrong combination sender/gauge! The senders are colour coded!

Fan kicks (if thermoswitch ok) at the gauge pointing just above halfway the range turns off halfway the range.

My fan doesn't shut off anymore without using the interiour heater. On high speeds it's even worse due to the fact that there is more energy put into the cooling system.
I'm beginning to suspect I have little or no airflow through my radiator, even at high speeds! Coolant flow is OK because the radiator gets hot all round.

Think I'm gonna try it out with a std. intercooler ie. getting rid of the possible airblock due to the front mounted intercooler.........

Ambient temperatures were about 25 degrees Celcius these days, now dropped to 15 so it will cool slightly better now......... Gonna try it out!

Had an e-mail back from GRS asking me the standard questions like is the fan rotating in the right direction. Mailed back and waiting for another reply now. I also gave Graham a link to this thread so he can get the story right.

Still no real solution within sight yet......

addiction

i had similar problem's to this when i was running only one fan.
when i added the 2nd fan onto a seperate switch the temps were considerably lower and then the addition of bonnet raiser's helped even further!
the highest temp's i see now are just over half way out on the road and after track session are still only 3/4 on the gauge!

Laurens

Hey Mark,

Good to see its finally up and running. Took you long enough
I see you are still running a old header tank. Dont know if you remember my overheating problems when I rebuilt my engine, but after a long search it was my headertank that had some minor cracks in it at which point it made it impossible for the system to build up pressure > hence no cooling and constant overheating.
So you might want to take a look at it and replace (looks nicer too then that yellow-ish tank you got in there now ) if nessesary.

gee686

just a suggestion you said that your engine is a zvh? r u sure you havnt got a problem with your waterpump ie the pump itself or the plate you have used. in other words is it circulating your water properly?

MarkXr

Addiction, did you also had the problem that the car would run hot on high speed with only one fan?
If so this would mean that the cooling with a front mounted i/c is purely forced through fans....

Just came from a fairly long cruise down the road and with current ambient temps (10 deg. C) it seems to be handling pretty OK. Heater on half way and heater fan blowing at level one.

Fan was cutting in and out all the time, on the motorway and across town.

Ey Laurens, how are you doing? And your RST?

Didn't remember you had any cooling issues. This "cracked" header tank, didn't it leak out coolant making it obvious that it was buggered? Mine surely doesn't leak so don't know if it's cracked in any way.
Might be the filler cap because it tends to blow of build up pressure pretty often.
When your RS was overheating due to the cracked tank, was it boiling all the time or just too hot but not yet boiling?!?

MarkXr

Gee, when I rev it up a tiny bit a fair amount of coolant is pumped into the header tank via the air bleeding hose on top of the thermostat housing.
I reccon that should indicate that the pump is circulating the coolant properly......

Laurens

I'm fine, RS is suspended again Rear beams decided to take a headstart on me. On the left side over the spring, on the other side in the bend from the spring down. So it needs some welding and as an added bonus on startup it blows blue smoke for the first 5 minutes
But I just cant be arsed really to start on it.

As for the headertank, mine was cracking around the fillercap. Weak point for the pressure. But mine was pretty much constantly boiling yes, so i guess your tank might be ok then afterall, though a new one still wouldnt hurt the looks
I hope you get it sorted soon m8.

Arjan

hi, what headgasket did you use?
anyway,take the dipstick out and closely look for tiny waterdrops.
when you turn on the heater fully do you smell anything?
any white smoke out of the exhaust when warmed up?

have you tried to retard the ignition? as this will decrease combustion chamber temperatures.

MarkXr

Ey Arjan,


I've used a Felpro head gasket. Heard lots of things about them not being the best around but it's the obvious choice when building a ZVH.

Checked the oil and coolant many times very closely and no signs of a leaking head gasket. Surely that won't be the problem.

At the time ambient temps have dropped to 10 deg. C and it's handling pretty fine now. Temps don't get to high and the fan will go on and off like it should at idle but also when driving at higher speeds.

Becomes more and more clear to see that the driving wind does not flow through the radiator because of the resistance. Only air ducted by the fan goes through it!
Maybe a second fan will handle the problem at higher ambient temperatures and if so I would be fine.

Also checked the ignition today and measured CO levels, all okay!
Graham from GRS is doing some research for me at the moment, I'll be experimenting some more with the car but I have this feeling I will be ordering a second fan pretty soon.

Either way, many thanks to all of you for thinking about it along with me.


I'll keep you updated via this thread..........

Gregor

Ok mate,

Hopes that sorts it then,,,,

i wonder how it 'll keep in e hot day with 2 fans then?

Cheers,

greg.

MarkXr

Right an update to keep you informed.

My theory about the problem is that the air speed caused by driving the car is going through the intercooler as it should be but because the intercooler is a resistor, the air loses speed before it reaches the radiator, therefore hasn't got enough energy left to go through the radiator and will flow away via the gap between the intercooler and radiator.

This means all the cooling the radiator will ever get is forced by the fan. On lower ambient temps, this will handle fine but when it gets hot outside the amount of air produced by the fan isn't enough anymore..............so I've mailed Graham for a second fan..

Now a question for all of you running a GRS I/C with 2 fans, how did you fit the second fan? At the drivers side the mounting points on the radiator are fixed so you cant set it back a bit. (like you do on the passenger side)
My intercooler is as close to the front as it can be. Even cut out a few bits out of the front bumper. ('88 spec)
So how do I create just that little extra space to get space for a second fan on the drivers side of the radiator??? (allready have the shortest alternator belt that goes on!)

Thanks in advance............

DanRSturbo

Hello m8, I don't think you can fit 2 of the RS Turbo Kenlowes in there, I think you have to run 2 x slightly smaller fans

Either that, or it's the usual cut-out of the front bumper

philcab

hi mate i have the same problem as you. I am running two kenlowes on my rad. I had the trim my bumper at the back of it where the foam is and had to spaced the intercooler of abit for the fans to fit. If you want any pics i wil take some for you and post them to you.

wim klomp

Still problems with the cooling Mark?

I'll hope you'll get the problem solved soon

I'm thinking about getting a GRS front mounted intercooler with 2 fans on the radiator.
but I'm still guessing of what is the best option
I was also thinking about making a scoop at the underside of the radiator that comes just under the bumper wich will guide the air upwards through the radiator

philcab

can you make me some pics of the fans on the rad too?
you may also send them to miniklopper@hotmail.com

already thanks

greetings Wim

MarkXr

What exactly do you mean by "RS Turbo Kenlowes"? Do you mean the original one mounted to the car or the aftermarket items that are recommended for the GRS Intercooler?

And do you know where to get even thinner fans than the recommended ones?

Great if you want to do that. You can send the pics to markxr@fordweb.nl or post them in this thread so everybody can take benefit of it.

Hi Wim, yes when it's hot outside the cooling does not cope with the heat produced.
I'm wondering how you would make the scope at the underside of the rad because in front of it there's the HUGE intercooler and underside of the gap between them two coolers is the front crossmember. A better option would be to "isolate" the gap between the intercooler and radiator ie. forcing the intercoolers airflow to go through the radiator.

pauldonachyrs

HI THERE MATE IM HAVING THE SAME PROBLEM AS YOU .DRIVING ABOUT THE STREETS THE TEMP IS SPOT ON UNTIL I REACH A MOTORWAY DOING OVER 75MPH THE TEMP STARTS TO RAISE. AND THATS WITH A BRAND NEW GRS INTERCOOLER,ALLOY RADIATOR AND 2 10" KENLOWE FANS IVE ALSO GOT THE THERMOSTAT REMOVED.

IVE BEEN TOLD TO REMOVE THE FANS FROM IN BETWEEN THE INTERCOOLER AND RADIATOR AND PUT THEM ON THE FRONT OFF INTERCOOLER SO ITS BLOWING AIR THREW THE COOLER AND RADIATOR AT SAME.OR PUT FANS ON THE COOLER SO THAT YOU HAVE FANS ON RADIATOR AND COOLER BUT IT COST ALOT OFF CASH FOR SET OFF FANS I WAS Ł270 FOR MINE

THE FANS COULD BE PREVENTING AIR GETTING TO THE RADIATOR COULD BE IN THE WAY.

pauldonachyrs

PLEASE HELP ME ASWELL GUYS AS I THE SAME PROBLEM BOTH OFF US ARE IN THE SAME BOAT KEEP ME POST FOR ANY MORE IDEAS CHEERS LADS PAUL.

MarkXr

Right I have fitted a second fan couple of weeks ago. The cooling system seems to handle much better, even with 30 degrees Celcius today. (didn't try motorway at this point)

But from the overheating problem straight to a new problem, read it in this post: https://passionford.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=280597