Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

Never mind reading about VEMS, scan down to read about a stupid fuckhead that has no idea what he is talking about.

Case study......

* Escort XR3i - 1990.
* Customer had fitted a Fiesta Turbo engine and Fiesta OFAC management and had converted it to run an Escort RST T3 Turbo.
* We then rebuilt the engine, using Forged pistons, standard spec head, rebuilt Stage 2 T3, Piper 285T cam etc. He only wanted around 170-180bhp and this spec should have breezed this power figure.
* The software was written using a chip (which we cannot do) using the 'best guess' method, which we then fitted and checked on our rolling road. This was done as a simple solution in the hope that his desired power figure would be easily achieved.

The car made a measly 135bhp. Yes, that's right a whole 3bhp above standard.

After months of pissing around with running problems, missfires and poor power, we finally took Piper out of the equation and concluded that as far as CVH cams go, they really need to go back to cam-school. This was after trying at least 3 of their cams, 2 of which were so-called custom spec to overcome the problems. Nothing was right. It seemed that everything was just a guess for them and finally we did the right thing and fitted a Newman cam with Solid lifters. Overkill really for this spec, but it eliminates any possibility of further problems.

We also decided that the OFAC management was not giving the car it's maximum potential, due to the fact that we know what we can do on the Dyno, but sadly cannot tweak the manangement to take full advantage of it. So, we made the decision to take the opportunity, with the customers approval to try a new system we have encountered from VEMS.

So, we test-fitted it to the car, so that we could try it but still back-track if it didn't work out and once on the dyno, we were astonished by the results, when you take into account the cost.

Once we had carried out the early configuration, it became clear that the car was much much happier, it started on the key, without any throttle interaction, warmed up from cold, idled nicely and made good power once we had optimised the fuelling and ignition maps. It also has the ability to run closed-loop, for fuel economy and has a very good data-logging add-on too.

Anyway, cutting to the chase, the car made 215bhp and just over 230lb/ft and feels awesome. I want you to understand that this is a true 215bhp, as our Dyno is very accurate and the car is extremely lively. I suspect that it would make considerably more than this on other Dyno's. The boost is a little unstable, but there are other reasons for this. The car peaks at 20psi and holds 16psi!



The conversion would cost around £1000, fitted and mapped.

I have to say though, that whilst we can now offer this as a conversion, we are being strict about what we take on. We will only carry this conversion out on a car that has been fully converted to EFi, we will not undertake any of the alteration's to Inlet manifolds etc. For the money, we are carrying out the wiring changes, fitting the ECU/MAP sensor etc and mapping it. Also, there may be additional charges for added features like closed-loop. We reserve the right not take on any job that we don’t feel is up to the required standard. Sorry we have to be so strict, but we don’t want just any old unfinished projects turning up and with us expected to wave a magic-wand over it.

Chris69

sounds very expensive to me just for chip and map etc
jamsport do the full conversion including converting to efi etc for £1300, roll i roll out jobby.

JesseT

So, it's basicly the settings for VEMS you are offering here? So it's probably pointless to ask to see the .msq file just out of interest?
But in any case, VEMS has been out there for a few years now and is an interesting piece of engineering. Good hardware, a bit user unfriendly coding, and terribly documentation for being open-source. A truly steep learning curve for anyone who has never programmed with efi systems before. Still worth every euro for the 300-400 it costs.

NEWTON

300-400 euros

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

Yes, but I wonder how involved they get in writing a custom map or whether they just dump a map on there and tweak it?

Anyway, who said anything about chip and map? It's a standalone management system, which requires the engine side to be rewired? A bit more than a chip I think.

Anonymous

Infact this sounds a total bargain Christian! I maybe giving you guys a call sometime in the New Year

©hatter Box

what injectors and fuel pump on there chirs?

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

Uprated in-tank pump and Beige's.

We think that's the Stage 2 turbo at it's limit. Bigger back-housing needed!!

By the way, my name is CHRISTIAN!!

©hatter Box

yes sir CHRISTIAN from now on

36 houseing or 48? still cant think why you cant get it right on ofac why was it not makeing the power?

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

0.36 housing. The OFAC chip was written elsewhere, so had to be conservative. As you well know there are only a handful of people that can write proper chips for these and we aren't one of them.

We could 'live' map it on the Dyno and the results are excellent. Ask Tony about how his is since it's Dyno map. The Dyno Dynamics system is so good for mapping on, highly controllable and accurate.

©hatter Box

you would have to show me m8 how it all works then all new to me half them super chips are crap and break down over the years same as the ecus

Charlie Chalk

iTrader: (1)

Sounds alright to me

GaryEvo

this is a reply i got from the uk vems guy after reading this......

VEMS is not open source, units are bought assembled and tested from the manufacturer. We currently use MegaTune because it's a great tuning package and better than we have the resources to develop as we're constanly developing new features and products.

also he gave me this link to those interested.

http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?pa...ob%2FUserGuide

Jamie Going

Every car fitted with Gotech by us has a full custom map

Kop2381

Now thats a bargain price and you cant say fairer than that for Gotech from the jamsport boys

DazC

iTrader: (1)

I was reading about VEMS the other day. Thought it was quite interesting stuff actually.

davsmith64

ok then, say if i had a genuine 200bhp rst running efi, what difference would this VEMS make to me car power wise and torque wise? regards dave

mitchrst

NOTHING if there's nothing wrong with the managment in the first place

you just need a good map

Chris69

no need to get ur nickers in a twist
Wot i meant was it seems expensive considering u have to have it fully converted and running on efi b4 u'll touch it.
i spose its good if ur inclined to chucking money at ur s2 to ge the best possible solution fiitted- then its cheap by the sounds of it i just havn't got money to burn

Tony Turbo

No, that's always been his name



As for the Dyno for mapping on - Truely worth every penny. It would be near on impossible to map to such a fine detail like that on the open road.

kay2

Wow christian thats awfully generous of you, i can see how inconvienient it would be to do your JOB

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

Sorry, you lost me there?

If I have read correctly what you said, then all I can say is take a day in my life and the amount of people I speak to that say 'Can you please map my car', so you book it in for a couple of days and when it turns up it need's bit's cutting and altering and we don't have a full machine shop. Or alternatively, someone wants you to bolt at T34 onto a standard RST engine etc etc.

rs_daz

This VEMS management

Would you consider fitting it to other cars say the below mk5 rs2k?
Price be the same?

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

I would have thought so.

matt p

Sorry mate but ive seen the gotech system being mapped and they start
from scratch on every car.

Whats the point in using a one map fits all cars, it totally defeats the object
of having a stand alone system......you may aswell buy a bloody superchip

Not being funny or anything but a little rumour along the grapevine is your mappin cant be that good if your engine goes bang at 2 bar ( even though you run 2.4 bar to get 351bhp but dont tell anyone that)

detin like fuck and melting the head

So id rather know what id go for with gotech as its mapped by people that really dont go for big boost and more realiabilty.

( Apart from stu's who generally does not give a fuck anyways as he is after 2.5 bar )

Like the two zvh's that have made over 300bhp at 1 bar of boost so you tell me where going wrong?

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

Sorry but that's overstepped the mark you wanker.

My engine went bang because of a shonky fucking Cometic head gasket. GET YOUR FUCKING FACTS STRAIGHT. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about and are repeating words that someone else has told you.

Show me the det on that head. Come on, fucking show me!! THERE IS NONE.

We ran it to 2.4 bar on the Dyno and it made no more power than it did at 2-bar, so that's where it stayed.

You can't compare 2 different methods to each other when you don't know the details. So, come on then, where do your little rumours come from?

matt p

Possibly touched a raw nerve there mate?

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

Det?? I see none.



Det?? I see none.

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

Fucking touched a raw nerve. I should think so.

It's wankers like you who bleat out without knowing the facts. What the fuck do you know about mapping? Infact what does ANYONE know about mapping a 350bhp 1600CVH?? It's all a learning curve for all of us, but this engine DIDN'T fail due to the mapping. Ask someone that knows about engine's.

matt p

Who you calling a wanker you in bred norfolk hill billy!!.

That head is shafted and blaming the headgasket seems a little to easy
for me mate.

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

What the fuck do you know?? So, it's not normal for a head gasket to fail at 2-bar on a 350bhp CVH?? You are a perfect example of the toilet of RST owners and the reason why anyone in their right mind wouldn't map a car for you because ANY failure and you would blame the mapper.

Whether the head failed due to a weakness in the head or the gasket failed is irrelevant. For you to blame the map is just a total guess. Poor mapping would have resulted in Det, you have the pics above, show me the Det, or is it as I suspect that you don't even know what Det looks like??

jr

an observation not knowing either of you, so cant take sides

Matt, you seam to have either been told a rumour, or heard one, or indeed started one, i know some tuners will slag each other off to customers to win them over, and get there customers to belive them as there telling the truth (seen it a few times, not with anyone mentioned hear though)

You seem to have taken these words as gospel, and now have nothing what so ever to back them up, and is now getting found out badly

jr

oh the GOTEC kit is indeed stand alone, and im 99% that price comes with a loom all wired in running etc, but im not sure if thats all mapped and tweeked etc

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

There is zero det evident there at all, in fact, surprisingly, it has NEVER seen any at all. Quite rare indeed.

I suggest you speak to whoever told you that bollox and tell them in no uncertain terms they havent a clue, and they have made you look a twat in front of 26000 people. Wounder.

Sadly, the way you are talking on this topics makes it "Sound" like Jamie or his staff told you, and thats a shame for a guy just trying to earn a living and his customers start causing him trouble with internet insinuations, so i would be apologising to him as well if i were you.

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

My point about the map is that benig Tuners we know for a concrete fact that many tuners (and I mean BIG name tuners) actually just use a previously written map and tweak it for the next car. I merely referred to my curiosity of how far Jamsport go with theirs and they confirmed that every car gets a custom map so fair enough, point taken and good on them. This was never intended to be a 'We are better than Jamsport' thread.

Then you get a Keyboard warrior that has no doubt over-heard someone else's conversation as Chinese whispers and thinks it's OK to blurt it all out, despite most probably not knowing one end of an engine from the other.

Gary F

iTrader: (1)

[quote="Stu @ M Developments"]I suggest you speak to whoever told you that bollox and tell them in no uncertain terms they havent a clue, and they have made you look a twat in front of 26000 people. Wounder.

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

Stu, this is the whole reason why we don't tell anyone anything and yet people wonder why we are secretive about what we do.

It's true that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

I apologise to anyone that I offended with my agressiveness above, but I unreservedly hate that cunt for making the unfactual suggestions that he did and it's good too see someone with lots of knowledge confirm and contradict what this nobody has said.

AndyRST

Strange that Christian managed to map his engine well enough last year for it to manage a record breaking 168.8 mph and he also mapped Tony's RST which managed 161.2mph at Brunters and both engines were in perfect working order after 4-5 high speed runs and both drove home after the event

You can quite clearly see from the pictures of Christians engine that the piston and head are det free and the gasket has failed right between the bore seal and the water way.

Perhaps someone could find a picture of a piston and head with det marks for our misinformed poster to compair the 2 so he wont make the same mistakes again

CossieRich

iTrader: (1)

At a guess i would say he is calling you a wanker, and quite rightly so by your complete rantings of incorrect facts and the obvious fact you dont know what you are talking about

Far too many "experts" on here such as yourself

Only a couple of people have made themselves look a bigger twat on here than you just have

Rob84

Matt P...

consider youself,