1.9 xr2 on 40's

u kept teh full non abs setup from my estate when i scrapped it, its all still in 1 piece, handy for my '86 s2


i have another full set up from the servo to the brake pipes where they go under the bulkhead too

may be easier to just hit the scrappies

C14KEE

sounds like i should just go back and get a normal ABS master cylinder from partco and let my mechanic bypass the ABS.

il change the modulators like Jano said then when i get time next.

Fuck this is complicated!!

Now im stuck with a single reservoir i just paid £20 for!!!
Any offers?

CHeers fellas

C14KEE

change compensators not modulators (tech talk is all new)

SafeChav

Mate it will be a wasted effort to get the pipes made and then at a later date change the compensators as the WHOLE pipework is different, if u want to do it, now is the time, so u need to decide.

Its easy to be honest, get a S2 NON ABS master cylinder, and go to the scrappy and get all the pipes off ANY NON ABS MK4.........fit it to yours.

Jobs a good un

C14KEE

i have already purchased a S2 non ABS master cylinder but safechav recons its the wrong one!!

ive got 22 on the side and i need a 25!!

Local ford dealer also said that for escorts 86-90 master cylinder is either ABS or non ABS, for all escorts.....so technically the cylinder i have with me now is the same thing as what would be on a 1.1 popular!!!

and i know im dull guys, but, if i have a master cylinder with 2 outputs on the top, and a reservoir which only covers one, what the hell do i do with the spare second output!!!???

SafeChav

C14KEE: dont quote me on that number, unless its BIG like the 25 on your master cylinder.

As i said measure the internal diameter of the open end of the master cylinder, thats the easiest way.

And the reservois has 2 openings into the master cylinder (the two holes seated in the rubber bungs), theres basically two seperate cylinders inside.

If you've got a haynes manual have alook at the re-buold section on the master cylinders, seeing a diagram will help you understand how it works

C14KEE

Ahhh i see, so are you saying safechav, by running a reserviour which only connects to one of the two seperate cylinders in the master cylinder, i am able to leave the spare cylinder open, with no worries?

C14KEE

Yea safechav just got the ruler out, i got 22mm on the inside

SafeChav

In a word........

NO

Right, now you understand the master cylinder internally is 2 seperate cylinders.

SO........the way most brake systems work on factory cars, is each cylinder runs 1 Front brake, and the diagonally opposite rear brake. So, 1 cylinder will run Front left, and rear right, and the other cylinder runs front right and rear left (you should be able to follow the layout on Lee's picture)

On the ABS set-up, 2 pipes leave the master cylinder, one to each modulator, and then back out the modulators, one to each side inner wing where you will see "T pieces" which make the pipes into 4 pipes (one pipe for each wheels brake). The ABS master cylinder only has 2 outputs because the modulators are in place to control the fluid flow when the ABS comes on.

Non ABS cars have 4 pipes straight from the cylinder, so no T pieces anywhere inline. Either way creates the same effect, which is fluid supplies to all 4 brakes.

HOWEVER, your car has the adjustable compensators at the back, if you want to bin these and run fixed rate ones, they live on the inner wings where currently you have the T pieces, and this is the reason all the pipes are different....

Are you any wiser now?

SafeChav

If you can, take it back. I see them on eBay all the time listed as RS ones and they aren't at all.

All MK4's after 86 came with at least a 23, VERY early MK4's and MK3's have 22's.

C14KEE

rite
currently, i have 2 pipes returning to my reservior
I have 2 pipes coming out of my master cylinder

So the reservoir i pick up 2mrw will only have one return?
and my non ABS master cylinder has 4 outputs (yes)

However, i have gone for the more difficult option by the sounds of it, because i need a lot more plumbing.
i need a drink!!!!!!!!

SafeChav

Im still not sure what you mean about this one return?

An ABS master cylinder, as in the picture of your car, has 2 outputs, and the 2 return pipes on the reservoir bottle.

A NON ABS item has 4 outputs (as circled in the picture i posted) and the reservoir bottle needs to be changed for one with NO RETURNS.

If you go with the NON ABS cylinder then yes there is a little more pipework involved, but untimately the brakes will feel better, as will the pedal, and you don't have those compensators at the back to cease up and fail on MOT's.

I suppose, if you wanted to keep an ABS cylinder to reduce piping, there is no reason why you couldn't fit the fixed rate compensators under the rear of the car...........just a thought

Versus_Creations

iTrader: (1)

Man, what a load of messing about.

Its as easy as this.

Take off all the brake system from a 1400 / 1600cvh Escort, Orion, combi etc. The rating on the cervo should be 23 and also have the compensators bolted on to the inner wing..

Remove, clean, service, paint etc..

Bolt on to your car...

--------------------------------------------------------------

SafeChav

On a Series 2.............Are you sureeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.......

Rallyesport

Use the master cylinder from an ABS RST S2, it's 25mm an bigger than other escorts. It dosen't mather if it's got only two outputs. It's no problem dividing it with the t-piece. You don't need four outputs to remove the ABS. Do it like the drawing and remove alle excess piping, hoses and modulator.

Versus_Creations

iTrader: (1)

Dont talk me like im a mug Andy.



Do you think im saying that for no reason what so ever, just cos i like the sound of it?

This has been tried and tested!

You go and try it on over 20 RS's and the such like, then pass judgment.

SafeChav

Seriously you've got a problem Jano. I'M HAVING A LAUGH, STOP CRYING.

And for the record, ive got a 23mm on mine, and its not up to the job, and YES they are bled properly. Also note the fact his car currently has a 25mm item.....your telling him to downgrade his master cylinder.

Why don't you give him one of your 25mm items, which, and i quote "you throw in the bin"

Rallyesport

All S2's got ABS and all of them have 25mm master cylinder with two outputs. Other Escorts have 22-23mm cylinders with four outputs.

SafeChav

I've seen S2's without ABS, i THINK Sure i have

Rallyesport

Well, 25mm is what you want. Splitting with an t-piece is no problem. This it what racing cars do. They usually got two master cylinder with one output each.

Versus_Creations

iTrader: (1)

Andy, you dont me in person to be able to have a laugh with me.

If your "having a laugh" as you put it. How am i sposed (<---spelling) to know?

I am offering advise and experiance to someone.

If i wanted a laugh, i would find amusment elswhere, thanks for the offer tho.


Regards

notSteveS2

just strip it off a doner car....

use everythin.... simple...


y alll these complications???

SafeChav

Its all very well for you to come storming in and say "its simple blahedy blah just do this do that", but i believe he actually wants to LEARN the principles behind it and not just a case of monkey see, monkey do, becuase Jano Oddkidd says so.

This was a good thread.......

And i see Steve also has the same oblivious attitude to it as you do, and i am also fairly convinced everything he says are your words re-gurgitated.

He doesn't fully understand whats involved and everyone is trying to help him understand so he learns (hence the note under his siggy saying "i will learn")

If you don't want to have a laugh, can i suggest you find a more serious forum, as im sure you have seen for yourself this place is also full of friendly banter, which you don't seem to know how to take.

And you are also WRONG once again about the master cylinder. Nice one

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

I haven't absorbed this whole thread, but my ABS was thrown in the bin years ago. I have a 25mm Master cylinder, which was rebuilt using a kit from Ford, which is like rocking-horse shit to get hold of.

We then fitted a non-ABS reservoir and repiped the brakes. It wasn't that hard.

My brakes are now TOTALLY repiped (front and rear) with no compensators and an adjustable bias valve in the car.

However, replacing the hoses that need replacing to remove the ABS isn't too much of a problem. I do have all the parts here, I think, to do it in steel-braided TFE hose with proper fittings and I have a rough template for hose lengths, but they would need to be made really by someone that knows how to make TFE hoses up. It is very hard to build copper pipes and make them look nice.

SafeChav

I couldn't agree more, the threads got a bit messy while trying to explain things, then Jano stepped in and claims a 23mm item is needed???

Personally i think theres nothing worse than doing something to your car if you dont understand why you are doing it, so thats why myself and others are trying to explain everything.

And i agree about the pipes, copper pipes always look shocking

Don't Pirtek assemble the braided hoses?

C14KEE

Well that was an interesting read....!

I am a pretty intelligent person but i have zero knowledge of cars, only thing i know is what to buy to make them fast, so i will say a big thank you for all the help, now i actually have a pretty good knowledge of how the brakes work on my car.

After that now, im gona swap the master cylinder for a 25mm ABS one (which makes sense cos its bigger) im gona pick the reservoir up from fords which has no returns (because i now know that the returns were coming from the ABS, which i now will not need), il then get my mechanic to wire it up as the drawing says, then in time il get the fixed rate compensators instead of the variable ones.
Is that ok? before i kick it into action next week?

I will say thank you safechav, cos at the end of the day your the one who kept this thread going and have been the main contributor, but i will agree with jano you do sometimes come across as a LITTLE bit condesending....not that ive experienced it myself. As the thread shows.
Cheers mate.

SafeChav

Ok, you seem to have the grasped the concept now, and thats fine.

HOWEVER, the one flaw, you aren't going to have anywhere to fit the fixed rate compensators, as they usually live on the inner wings where currently the T piece splitters are.

Im not saying it can't be done, but its going to involve more pipe work. I would try and do it all in one go if you can

And if i come across as that sometimes ill try not to anymore, and definately nothing intended

notSteveS2

i dotn say any1s words regurgitated (spelling)...


all im sayin to u is its treid and tested already on cars it will swap straight over from....


is that not true???

if so wots wrong with usein it?

ivorbiggun

Shimano V Brakes/ Can't beat em..........!

SafeChav

Make sure you get the top of the range XTR ones though

ivorbiggun

23 mm cylinders will be fine. Xr's and orion 16i's with abs left the factory
with them and it's fitted to mine with rear discs and Cos set up on the front.
I think the problems occur when folks fail to bleed them correctly (ie have a mate sat in the boot to activate the apportioning valves)and try fitting
136 cylinder calipers.

ivorbiggun

P.S. Andy I've always found your info (particulary electrical) nothing less than excellent. Just because some (usually those who were off the day teacher covered compreehenshun) take umbridge, just remember you can never give offence,only those who choose to take it, can.

SafeChav

Don't forget though that RS's do have bigger brakes than the XR's and alike and all left the factory with a 25mm.

I expect you are right on the bleeding issue, i myself however, fitted a full cossie 2wd set up on my cabby with a 23mm item (doesnt have the rear asjustable compensators) and theres a lot of travel in the pedal, before i learned of the bleeding problems the pedal hit the floor and they didnt work. Im 100% confident they are bled, and the car passed the MOT even though the travel is evident in the pedal.

Thats all i can see it being, bigger pistons require more fluid obviously. Unless anybody else has any ideas?

C14KEE

well im just gona chuck on a normal master cylinder and run with the abs again, wasnt really having that much problems with it, just fancied the sound of the upgrade.

think il keep an eye out for a nice little £200 mk 4 banger that aint rotting, come in hand for a few experiments then.

SafeChav

How come the change of mind mate?

scotty86d

Just spent the afternoon ripping the system off a 1.6 and putting it in place of my rs abs system. If i can do it anyone can, not that difficult just hope the car is ok once blew. what are the issues wih bleeding the system?

SafeChav

If its a standard brake setup, and you dont have adjustable rear compensators then its very very easy.

C14KEE

threads back again!?

aye werent really havin trouble with the abs so why bother with the hassle?? aye a mate of mine just came up and offered me £3k for my car too, so mite just do a quick fix and sell up, missus is havin a pout tho so mite not be after all!

think il buy a banger and take all the shit off that.

Tell me someone, if i ditch the abs and keep the variable compensators on the back, will the brakes still work tidy? or am i gona be havin lockups on the back end (or no braking!)???

SafeChav

The rear compensators are safe to use without ABS, but i believe the brakes are more effective without and the pedal will feel better.

C14KEE

cheers