right lol, im in my 1st year at uni studying a motorsport engineering degree, ive been given an asignment to complete for jan 2006. just thought i would post it up on here 2 get some ideas or thoughts from you.

my assignment is 2 produce an engine specification for a F1 car which will develop around 1000 bhp
there is no restriction on engine config but the overall length should not exceed the current spec
there are no induction restrictions, but the aim is 2 develop an engine with simular power curves 2 the current v10.

engine size is NOT restricted but excessive weight must be avoided, the engine will have a manual gearchange and driven rear wheels (6spd gearbox)

engine life should be around 1200 miles before major rebuilds (6gp distances)

Essential criteria:
pump fuel 98 octane
rera tyre rollin radius of 600mm, top spd to be around 200mph
top gear ratio of 1:1 (final drive selected accordingly)
Turbocharging is acceptable BUT it can run no more than 1BAR of boost
stroke/bore ratio not to be less than 3:4
mean piston speed not to exceed 24ms
btw no nitrous and no water injection

theres more but i dont want annoy people keep carryin on. what do u lot think???????????

 

whats wrong with an f1 engine then? they say at the end of this season some are 1000 HP

 

come on weve got enough engine building gurus on this site to help the young lad out with some ideas chip,stu,karl theres plenty of you knowledgeble peeps

 

pump fuel

 

yea crappy 98 octane ratin fuel, dunno y. that means the compression ratio cant even b tht much .

also the engine should not make all its power thru high rpm, it must deliver gd torque aswel???????

 

come on ryan im sure youve got some ideas for the lad

 

F1 cars are ment to be run on a fuel that they can buy from a garage forcourt,,, the way they was getting around it, was hiring a local garage out,, and filing it with there own fuel

 

With no engine size restrictions and turbocharging available to 1bar, sure this is piss even on pump fuel, and probably have a far nicer curve than the F1 engines due to the turbo(s).

How detailed do they want?

 

go back to the 80's and looks the the f1 engine then, might give you some ideas.

If not, how about indy car engines?

 

GT40Rs run 50lb/min at 1bar according to the comp map IIRC, so a pair of them is a start.

No need to worry about looking at F1/Indy engines IMO, as he got it totally different, esp as he can use huge capacity, but only 1bar n pump fuel.

 

they was running a little more than 1 bar

like 3,5 of the fuckers

 

yea i have found some info from a cosworth powered f1 car frm 1989, but it doesnt say wht kind of power output it was making, the max rpm was 11000 tho, would that be able 2 make that kind of power levels.
some of the things they want to know off me are:

mean piston speed at max rpm
B.M.E.P at full power (break mean effective pressure)
torque curve (rough example from research)
predicted topseed in low drag config
vehicle should accelerate from 0 to 100 kmh in 1.5 secs, therefore torque needs to be calculated (rear wheels) and translated into peak torque at the flywheel allowing for final drive torque multiplication and low gear ratio

 

get on desk top dyno and have a play about

 

i forgot about steve another geezer always willing to help

 

yea thanks for the ideas lads, i can have 2 turbos so yea 2 gt40r's sound like a good idea. where do i get test top dyno mate. or is it me bein stupid lol. thanks for the advice people

 

BMW 5litre V10 would be obvious choice of a road car engine, all-alloy i think, 500+bhp and 8250rpm redline as standard, 2x GT40s should be at 1bar by 3k on one of them, 1bar boost well intercooled can be fairly high comp even on pump fuel so powerband and torque will be relativley huge compared to a F1 car i reckon...

 

i cant remember i got it from,, i dont know if i still got it

BTW i typed it wrong,, its desk top dyno

 

where are you studying motorsport mate, i'm doing the same course and am in 1st year.

we got a similar project starting next week but with rally cars...

 

lol i will have a look round for it then, the beemer unit is the 1 used in the m5 and 6 right, think that engine was designed by williams . if that makes 500 brake frm around 5 litres and i think its NA aspirated, so with 2 turbos running 1 bar and maybe afew hundred more cc's thats got 2 make really good torque and close to a 1000 bhp(easily) u would think???
is this the style and config of engine most of you would go for?

 

im studying at derby university mate , good luck with yours pal

 

ryan i need you to chat to you tutor i want in

 

I assume these two constraints will give you your max capacity depending on the configuration of the bore ?

 

Never had courses like this when I was looking for courses dure=ing A levels

Closest I could find which would have been smi usefull was Automotive Engneering Bastids...

You both got A levels or HNC/D's?

 

fook me a Derby lad
1 bar is a little low,

A DFV V8 type engine at about 4L ish size with 2 blowers should see 1000 bhp

 

will put a good word in matey,
i did a BTEC national diploma in automotive technology before goin to uni

mattrs1600i; yes mate i think that most f1 cars are v10 but nt sure. theres easily enough space for loads of diff engine configs i would think. v6/ v8/v10 etc.

i deffo want 2 use turbos, think 1 bar is 14.7 psi, on a big litre engine this should be good enough for decent power levels, nothin compared to the boost some yb's are runnin tho

 

lol not many derby people on here then

 

i really wish id done a motorsport degree this year instead of taking a year out!

have you got to go into cylinder head/inlet design, volumetric effieciency, fluids and shit? or is it just come up with an ultimate spec within those few contraints?

 

engine size shouldnt be an issue in the slightest, if you want power you can compensate for engine size with revs, just like F1 engines do.

main advantage of size in this application is spooling up turbos quickly, find yourself a big capacity high revving engine and your on a winner.

which is why i chose the M5 V10

dont see why itd need more capacity to hit 1000bhp running 2xGT40s at 1bar, infact id be suprised if it needs anything.

only thing i can see it needing is maybe compression ratio adjusted to take a solid 1bar from 2x GT40s right upto the rev limiter (on pump fuel but with a sufficiantly good intercooler or two).

a 5litre V10 like that revving to 8500 running 2x GT40s@1bar would have prob about THREE times the torque of a current F1 engine (they got just 250-300lbft ), and a bigger overall powerband too.

 

yea jus ultimate spec within that. we work on flow benches and things next year, they have just had a dyno fitted a few months ago, my cabby rs will be there a few times lol . im glad im doin the course,
they have 2 formula fords
sidecar
rally 205 gti
radical kit car
fzr 400 race bike

im 1 of the youngest on my course at 18 (19 on the 13th of nov)

 

Fook me that couse sounds tops........wish i wasnt such an old coont

 

just drawing up an ultimate spec should be 30 mins work then!!!!

id imagine you'll go into volumetric efficiency (i can barely spell it ) and flw of fluids and shit at some points, youll enjoy it!

i wanna get into something like this, but i also wanna move out soon....and i cant wait till september!

what help do they give you at the end of it with getting into the industry and getting a job and stuff? im guessing you do a few weeks on a placement?

 

well the 2 head people on the course (leader and workshop teacher) have links throughout the motorsport industry,
workshop teacher is an ex endurance racer and still builds engines for competition cars and bikes,steve hill the course leader has many links and friends who work in f1 etc. these designs we do and engine spec (best 3 of them) will get sent 2 zytech engineering , the people who make the formula a1 engines

 

bloody ell i should of gone to derby...

i'm at kingston we got....

stupidly specced lotus elise
catherham 2.1
speedway bikes
f3000 car

to name a few

oh and a aircraft hangar with a small private jet for the aeronautical engineers

 

My bro has just started motorsport engineering at UWE in Bristol, they are just doing a generic engineering course for the first year, nothing exciting like this!!!!
We dont have any interesting cars in the workshop either

Although we do have a rather cool wind tunnel.

 

wind tunnels are big money , i get sent off 2 do a little course usin carbon fibres 2 make spoilers and things like that aswel