as title really. basicly i've concluded the valve guide seals need doing on my saph, can i do them without removing the head?

cheers
john

 

simple answer is no, you need to take the head off

 

Really pugo

I *thought* you could do them by blowing compressed air with a special adaptor screwed into the plug hole to keep the valves in place while the springs, etc... are removed.

It's late and been a long week already, so the above may well be a load of old codswallop (sp?)

 

Yes, you can. Ford special tool to do the job too, made by Churchill years ago. Best trick I learned was feeding loads of that thick nylon washing line into the cylinder, then cranking round towards TDC. This will lock up the valves into the seats. Easy to fish out afterwards. The tool is a standard sort of compressor really .. I made one, so you can do it, too

 

or you can just whip the head off and recut the valves, check the guides..........and do the job properly and easily, about 30 mins to remove the head and no grief

pugo

 

We (Ford) introduced this procedure back in the 80's primarily to cater for engines that suffered early and premature failure of valve stem seals, before a material/spec mod was introduced. The removal of a Cylinder head is not always necessity (or recommended) In this case, the customer possibly does not need the expense of gasket, timing belts renewal, and other associated work.
This is acceptable service practice for CVH and Cosworth 16v cylinder head assy's.
It may take you 30 minutes to remove a head assy but there is a lot of work involved to carry out if to be done properly. I seem to remember that the workshop time was about 1 hour to replace the seals.
In fact, the simple answer was yes .. to his question. You're selling him a sledge-hammer to crack a nut.

HTH AJK.

 

I am guessing (and maybe incorrectly) that this engine is not a low milage example i.e under 40k ! therefore i would assume that possibly the engine has wear to the valve guides (as well as seals) and that it has probably run like this over an acceptable period to cause erossion to the valve seats, now if you want to run the risk of just changing valve stem seals on a 15 to 20 year old performance engine without examining any other possible causes then good for you! however i am sure you will agree that by either removing head to perform task or by doing it in situ then the cambelt will need to be removed, changing this will surely be at the owners discretion?
the price of a std head gasket is in the region of about £15 and if it is a modified gasket then i would presume that the engine is not std and that a full examination would be highly recommended, however if it is a std gasket then that is the only extra part required and i for one would rather remove the head than ram things into a hole to lock the valves up !


where is all this work if its done properly........!

i stand by my answer....the simple answer is no, however if you wish to buy specialist tools and do not want to check over your now very hard to obtain and fragile cylinder head then yes you can do it in situ ,however there but for the grace of god go you

 

from experience, i would say that it is possible with the head on, but it's much easier in the long run if you remove it (particularly if you accidently let a valve drop into the cylinder )

 

pugo and Al, thanks for the entertainment!

i'm swaying more towards taking the head off and doing it properly if i'm going to do it. engine has done 68k so yeah you're right in that a full and carefull inspection wouldn't go amiss really.

thankyouplease for the help

 

Quite ok John

Pugo ... You should be a Politician .. or a Ford Workshop Front-counter Manager ..
(but not an English teacher or counsellor)
Your costs assume you already have a torque wrench/gauge, all the tools, and ignore all the other gaskets, then? It's likely to be heat that has damaged the guide seals long-term, not a bit of guide wear.

P.S. The washing line trick is superb, by the way .. you should try it sometime.
You cant lose anything inside, and you could probably put a valve back in if it dropped out (which it cannot)

 

had a look on burton power site last night, worst it's gonna cost me is 330 quid and thats at their stupid prices so with some shopping around i should get it cheaper than that.

tools aren't a problem either, i'm a mechanic myself but work with commercial all the time and for some reason i'm shit scared of taking my cossie apart incase i break it!

 

I used to look inside them with an Olympus Endoscope with flexible magnifier tip, when I was in the RAF ... That's what we used to use to check inside Gas Turbine engines to check for damage.
If it's done less than 60-70K, I'd not go to all the trouble and expense. There won't me much to gain. The tool we used was a Ford Special tool made by Churchill (now SPX) and was like an open-sided deep socket that located over the cap. It used a mount bolt as a fulcrum, and had a long handle as a lever. We substituted the line method, as it seemed to be quicker and more reliable. Cant damage anything, and you don't need compressed air. You leave the end dangling out, so you can pull it out once the piston's down.
Good luck, whichever way you go!