hy I took my escort s2 on the dyno

here are the spec :
piper cam 285 t
stage 2 brand new turbo
mongoose exhaust
open air filter
bailey dump valve
group a coil
7200 rev limit
no limit boost ECU

Boost set up like 1.2 Bar
AFR on idle 14.7 AFR on boost 11
timing set at 8 degree

the car drive nice no bugs or detontion

well here are the dyno diagram but only 160.4 PS (bhp) on engine
and 139 on the wheels
and 243 NM torque


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sounds like its to rich on boost for a start mate

 

Impressive transmission losses at 12%, must be a very good gearbox you have

 

I would expect much more power on this boost! You increased your boost from 0.5 (std) to 1.2 and you gained 30 bhp

Do you have some photo's from the dyno set up? Did it have a good cooling block in front of the car?

 

What is the difference between a stock and stage 2 turbo?

 

it s shiftech dyno yes they did have a cooling but I don t know if it was on or off normaly on

well not enough boost? why only 160 ps I was thinking about 185 -190 like maximom on MFI

 

A little low for 17psi (if it's held to limiter?), would of expected around 185bhp.
Perhaps a little more timing and a little less fuel would see the gains you expected.

 

8 degree advance is 4 degree less than what the book states @ 12degree. If you set it to 14 degree and sorted the fueling out and cam timing with that boost you should see closer to 190bhp.

The jets or boost control is not set correctly either as the curve is shite.

 

360 degree thrust bearing and a 50 trim compressor wheel.

luxembourgrst What are you using for boost control?

 

well over 1 bar boost we have to put our timing to 8 degree no?
the fueling is ok no? 11.00 afr on boost is save ?? or is it to rich?

more timing would say to go back to 12 degree?

 

Didn't say not enough boost mate! I expect more power on the boost you are running. I have ran wel over 160 bhp with about 1 bar.

I did have a flowed head


I like the photo's and love the looks of your car!

 

what intercooler are you using and what were your charge air temps

 

airtec front big intercooler

for the temp I don't know sorry

but few days ago in set my ignition timing on 12 degree an yes the car sounds more powerfull ( at high rpm I looks like it s on the limit of dentoantion ) but drive fine have to go back on a dyno

and I looked better on the turbo pressure gauge an it hit the max of 1.4 bar and my AFR is always at 11.8 on cruising an on boost at high rpm..

 

12 degree is still not enough. You will need to monitor fueling carefully but will be fine if everything is working how it should.

 

Just to add that 1.4 bar is on the limit. If you was to run less boost and more ignition with a decent boost curve you would still make more power than running high risky boost on a system that can go out of sync very easy. Which will no doubt cause failure.

 

yes I will try this

 

You would start tuning from around 8 degree's, advancing it and matching the fueling to your desired boost until you found detonation.
There is not one figure you can use for everyone as each engine configuration can be very different.

 

Telling him to advance his timing without knowing how close he is to det is very dangerous advice! You could have just killed his engine!

 

Shut up Karlos.

How many engines do you think I have tuned.

Of course he is aware that any self tuning of his engine can kill it.

I'm telling him what i can run on every mfi engine i have tuned. None of them have issues running that advance as his engine won't as long as it's all tuned properly.

Now go away do some practice and r&d then come back with your 2 bobs worth

Most decent tuned mfi engines can run upto 17 degree. So his still safe.

You obviously wouldn't know that just yet,

 

bad boy bad boy what you gonna do?


well
I m on 12-13 degree timing but the engine sounds like if I put it to 14 I will gonna have detonation..... if I want to put it to 14 I have to puch the turbo pressure down no?

 

"Sounds like" and "is" are two different things

You must have a set of cans fitted to do all this and also a good wideband as close to the downpipe as you can.

You need to make sure the cam timing is spot on, then make sure the fuel is keeping up as some metering units, just for what ever reason internally cant flow the fuel. Sometimes injectors or sensors etc have issues. Stating the obvious that everything needs to be working well.

If ACT is below 45degree and timing set to 14advance with base fuel of 3% you will not get any signs of det.

Make sure you have super unleaded at all times.

 

Just to add.

This is just the end of the tuning methods, before all this you should read the setup guide to make sure everything else is how it should be at base settings. Fuel pressure and static settings.

I hope this helps you out, like I say this is first hand tested and tried with proven results.

 

well do you think 1.4 bar is to mutch?
an I need to put timming to 14 degree?

 

Without being there in person you cannot tell anyone to run any advance... how do you know his ECU is retarding the timing properly as boost increases? How do you know his charge temps are not sky high? What are his EGT's?
I prefer not to guess and take risks with people's cars... but that's just me, you carry on mate.

 

his in Luxembourg ffs we are never going to get these answers all we can do is give him decent guidance.

maybe you missed this....

 

Hello Jano,

I have never seen the factory Ford RST total timing map.
I would assume that is is very conservative.
The factory unmolested timing map must reduce timing based on boost levels.
As factory was limited to (8psi?) does the stock computer reduce timing at higher boost pressures - or does it reach a maximum boost retard at 8 psi or more?

Any idea what total ignition timing is at 1 bar and 12 degrees (factory setting)?

Does the factory Ford computer change timing vs. RPM and Boost?

A factory map would be awesome to see.

Cheers

 

Telling him to advance his timing is not decent guidance.
No I didn't miss that, but it's det he should be monitoring, even if the fuelling is spot on there are so many other factors (as I mentioned above) that can cause it to det.
My understanding is that beyond factory boost no it does not pull timing, you have to manually move the distributor to retard it for higher boost settings, some chips have a revised spark map but most just remove the boost cut and I do not know what the factory MAP sensor reads too either.

 

The std ecu is mapped to 10 psi alot of after market chips just remove the boost limit and can therefore only read 10 psi
The std pressure sensor is a frequency out put sensor the ecu processor can be altered to read upto 23 psi and have an ignition map to suit.
All our chips had raised boost limits and properly mapped ignition curves
Some ecu mods were not even a chip or properly mapped chip they were nothing more than a micky mouse board that limited the map sensor out put to never effectively see above 8 psi of boost if they worked at all

 

Fantastic, Thank you.

 

That's an excellent post thank you!
So based on that, most chips (excluding your's and I believe Ahmed chips?) would be running 8psi advance at that and above! What is the factory advance at that boost, 20-25 degrees?

 

Again you must only read what you want to see...

 

Posts 8 and 14 you tell him to advance is timing, it's after Karlos questions you that you mention det cans

 

IMO It's just too risky with the age of the fuelling/ignition systems.... Based on Jano's advice people reading this will think it's safe to advance their timing to 17 degrees, set their base CO to 3%, run higher boost and all hoping/assuming that everything is working as it should is just going to result in a lot of dead engines

 

Alot of work for someone then

Just bin that mfi stuff and buy 2nd hand cossie gear, bargain at Ł1500 but where do you go to get the answers

 

Based on Janos advice and handywork my car runs awesome at 26Psi and plenty of ignition its all holding together well, i dont think there will be many CVHs keeping up with it. he also has loads of other customers in the same boat.

it also starts on the button and drives of boost better than any MFI car ive ever owned.

 

Good to hear that some MFI cars are still in good working order mate.

 

well my setup is know
12.5 AFR on boost boost at 1.3 bar
ignition timing at 12-13 degree
the car runs fine and powerfull need to go back on a dyno to look if I have more horse pwer

 

You probably will have more horsepower. But my friend you don't need to go for a hp check, but to make sure everything is safe. No det with det cans, AFR everywhere right.

Don't drive it anymore before you have everything checked.

 

IMO 12.5:1 is a bit to lean at 1.3bar, I would run at least 12.0:1 just in case you're not fuelling evenly on all four cylinders for example... little bit of safety margin.

 

8 degrees eh? Interesting number... and I will tell you why...

A very big and common problem with these old systems now, and so far unmentioned by anyone, is the map sensor in the ECU dies and cannot see boost anymore and thus the timing stays static. In these cases the base ignition angle tends to end up at... wait for it.... 8 degrees... otherwise it dets its brains out on 97ron from about 10 upwards.

Maybe the tuner knew exactly what he was doing, but not why this vehicle needed so little advance. Very few people understand Bosch KE and understandably so, its prehistoric and quirky at best.

Also, given this chap is overseas, he likely isnt running the same octane fuel as us. How come nobody has asked him? Tweak with caution boys... Internet tuning can be very dangerous. LOL