General Car Related Discussion. To discuss anything that is related to cars and automotive technology that doesnt naturally fit into another forum catagory.

usa dyno power figues

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Oct 15, 2013 | 08:46 PM
  #1  
nevsrevs's Avatar
nevsrevs
Thread Starter
PassionFord Post Troll
 
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,735
Likes: 22
From: somerset
Default usa dyno power figues

why o why do they come up with such radical figures,
run there cars on 92 ron fuel strap it down on a brake testing machine and hey presto 1000hp honda c90.
Reply
Old Oct 15, 2013 | 08:50 PM
  #2  
gjh's Avatar
gjh
10K+ Poster!!
 
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 12,785
Likes: 347
From: West Wales
Default

It does make me wonder sometimes, seen civics with bolt on mods on B16s that pull 230odd horsepower at the wheels, really??
Reply
Old Oct 15, 2013 | 08:51 PM
  #3  
J1mbo's Avatar
J1mbo
B1mbo
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,986
Likes: 1
From: Peterborough
Default

Full of shit!
Reply
Old Oct 15, 2013 | 08:55 PM
  #4  
cossie4i+'s Avatar
cossie4i+
TT T38 Power
iTrader: (15)
 
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 22,368
Likes: 32
From: Somerset
Default

Always seem high to me as well.

Also the cooling fans always seem very small and to far away from the rad

Steve
Reply
Old Oct 15, 2013 | 08:56 PM
  #5  
gjh's Avatar
gjh
10K+ Poster!!
 
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 12,785
Likes: 347
From: West Wales
Default

Originally Posted by J1mbo
Full of shit!

LOL Does make me think, they always seem to fit loads of bolt on mods like under drive pulleys (as they like to call them) and earthing kits and get good gains, would those parts work or is it more bullshit? I mean if they worked, wouldn't they be more commonly used over here?)
Reply
Old Oct 15, 2013 | 09:04 PM
  #6  
nevsrevs's Avatar
nevsrevs
Thread Starter
PassionFord Post Troll
 
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,735
Likes: 22
From: somerset
Default

over on focaljet there's loads of 500-600whp st170 engine focus,
I cant bite my lip any longer,
I have a svt with a gt35 standard head, valve springs, rods, pistons, gearbox, 525whp, this is a vid of it cellotaped down on a rolla skate, then all the goons bust there nuts.
Reply
Old Oct 15, 2013 | 09:21 PM
  #7  
dojj's Avatar
dojj
Resident Wrestling Legend
20 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (3)
 
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 50,018
Likes: 259
From: Little India
Default

Originally Posted by gjh
LOL Does make me think, they always seem to fit loads of bolt on mods like under drive pulleys (as they like to call them) and earthing kits and get good gains, would those parts work or is it more bullshit? I mean if they worked, wouldn't they be more commonly used over here?)
underdrive pulley should COST you hp because they are doing more work as they are turning much faster than they should as they are smaller

it's just like putting smaller wheels on your car and then driving in one gear
Reply
Old Oct 15, 2013 | 09:34 PM
  #8  
Straight_4_N/a's Avatar
Straight_4_N/a
I've found that life I needed.. It's HERE!!
 
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,057
Likes: 0
From: Caerphilly, Wales.
Default

Because there nuts. Stock zetec block with just a decompression plate with a gt28 turbo fitted running perfectly safe at 340whp lol.
Reply
Old Oct 15, 2013 | 10:26 PM
  #9  
GVK.'s Avatar
GVK.
PassionFord Post Whore!!
20 Year Member
Liked
Loved
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,928
Likes: 129
From: Lincs.
Default

They use different ratings for fuel ,so '92' isn't as bad as you think.

From Wikipedia but you get the idea..

United States: in the US octane rating is displayed in AKI (Anti-Knock Index). In the Rocky Mountain (high elevation) states, 85 AKI (90 RON) is the minimum octane, and 91 AKI (95 RON) is the maximum octane available in fuel. The reason for this is that in higher-elevation areas, a typical naturally aspirated engine draws in less air mass per cycle because of the reduced density of the atmosphere. This directly translates to less fuel and reduced absolute compression in the cylinder, therefore deterring knock. It is safe to fill a carbureted car that normally takes 87 AKI fuel at sea level with 85 AKI fuel in the mountains, but at sea level the fuel may cause damage to the engine. A disadvantage to this strategy is that most turbocharged vehicles are unable to produce full power, even when using the "premium" 91 AKI fuel. In some east coast states, up to 94 AKI (98 RON) is available. As of January, 2011, over 40 states and a total of over 2500 stations offer ethanol-based E-85 fuel with 105 AKI. Often, filling stations near US racing tracks will offer higher octane levels such as 100 AKI
Doesn't justify some of their claims though, lets not get started on their 1/4 mile times...

Last edited by GVK.; Oct 15, 2013 at 10:33 PM.
Reply
Old Oct 15, 2013 | 10:42 PM
  #10  
bj928's Avatar
bj928
I've found that life I needed.. It's HERE!!
 
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,050
Likes: 21
From: whitstable, kent
Default

not many of them are running pump fuel, most are running a high octane race fuel, the big HP mustangs have major detonation issues with the charge temp from the supercharger getting to high, so rather than sort the issue the way we would and air to air intercool the charger, instead of the crap water to air system they have from the factory, they just up the octane to sort the problem, and advance the timing or retard whichever way it goes, not sure what octane they are running but i know its well into the 100, maybe 110 octane, and as their octane is lower than ours it make me wonder what the uk octane it would be.
Reply
Old Oct 15, 2013 | 10:47 PM
  #11  
GVK.'s Avatar
GVK.
PassionFord Post Whore!!
20 Year Member
Liked
Loved
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,928
Likes: 129
From: Lincs.
Default

E85 is basically race fuel, from the pump!
Reply
Old Oct 16, 2013 | 07:27 AM
  #12  
nevsrevs's Avatar
nevsrevs
Thread Starter
PassionFord Post Troll
 
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,735
Likes: 22
From: somerset
Default

but even on there 92ron there claims are wild, when you see the car wobbling on a single roller,
Reply
Old Oct 16, 2013 | 07:34 AM
  #13  
jonfoc's Avatar
jonfoc
Advanced PassionFord User
 
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,419
Likes: 272
From: God knows!
Default

Do you think there's a reverse exchange rate cos we get more of their money to our pound? So in return they claim more horse power per car!
They do seem very good at talking things up
Reply
Old Oct 16, 2013 | 07:57 AM
  #14  
pani_k's Avatar
pani_k
PassionFORD Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,768
Likes: 0
Default

Thing is though the yanks have access to some very nice parts especially on SVT/Zetec engines so I don't see if built properly why they shouldn't make the numbers.
Reply
Old Oct 16, 2013 | 01:55 PM
  #15  
The Underdog's Avatar
The Underdog
you cant fix stupid
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,133
Likes: 59
From: s wales
Default

Originally Posted by dojj
underdrive pulley should COST you hp because they are doing more work as they are turning much faster than they should as they are smaller

it's just like putting smaller wheels on your car and then driving in one gear
i have a crank underdrive and they are smaller thus slowing the speed of all the ancillaries. the revolutions are unchanged on the crank pulley whatever the size as they can only spin as fast as the crank.. they also weigh a lot less. mine standard was 1.4kg and new one 200g. the weight alone frees up the revving and although small they do make a difference. they have long term drawbacks because you no longer have harmonic balance but on a track car i dont car.

edited cos i got bigger and smaller the wrong ways around earlier

Last edited by The Underdog; Oct 16, 2013 at 02:50 PM.
Reply
Old Oct 16, 2013 | 03:19 PM
  #16  
turnover's Avatar
turnover
I've found that life I needed.. It's HERE!!
20 Year Member
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,100
Likes: 34
From: midlands
Default

There power figures I allways think there whp is our fw power,but they do some crazy times at the track although a lot are down hill and they have nice weather heating a prepped track,but the times don't lie
Reply
Old Oct 16, 2013 | 04:30 PM
  #17  
Canada1's Avatar
Canada1
Too many posts.. I need a life!!
15 Year Member
Liked
 
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 795
Likes: 26
From: Canada
Default

Originally Posted by turnover
There power figures I allways think there whp is our fw power,but they do some crazy times at the track although a lot are down hill and they have nice weather heating a prepped track,but the times don't lie
USA tracks do not run downhill - this is false information - how many US drag strips have you attended?
It may look like that - but the slow down part of the track is elevated to aid slowing the cars. It could look like the race part of the track is downhill if the camera is on the elevated slow down part of the track.

(92 or 93 octane fuel is similar to UK 99)
E85 is not race fuel - it is 85% Ethanol 15% gasoline blend. It certainly works well with supercharged or turbo applications (higher boost and higher ignition timing makes more power).
Reply
Old Oct 16, 2013 | 04:43 PM
  #18  
Rod-Tarry's Avatar
Rod-Tarry
Happily retired
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 7,707
Likes: 238
From: Hampshire
Default

The Yanks are bigger & better than us in everything they do. They believe that even if we dont. They are best left in there own dreamworld and not worried about.
Reply
Old Oct 16, 2013 | 05:07 PM
  #19  
GVK.'s Avatar
GVK.
PassionFord Post Whore!!
20 Year Member
Liked
Loved
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,928
Likes: 129
From: Lincs.
Default

Originally Posted by Canada1
E85 is not race fuel - it is 85% Ethanol 15% gasoline blend. It certainly works well with supercharged or turbo applications (higher boost and higher ignition timing makes more power).
You missed out the word I posted 'basically'. It's higher equivalent octane to basic pump 'gasoline'. Yeah?
Reply
Old Oct 16, 2013 | 07:47 PM
  #20  
J1mbo's Avatar
J1mbo
B1mbo
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,986
Likes: 1
From: Peterborough
Default

Originally Posted by turnover
There power figures I allways think there whp is our fw power,but they do some crazy times at the track although a lot are down hill and they have nice weather heating a prepped track,but the times don't lie
Agreed, then plus a bit.
I follow the Honda scene a little and their claims are out of this world.
Eg 500whp civic at 18psi on a gt3076... No need to go on
Reply
Old Oct 16, 2013 | 08:00 PM
  #21  
Fiesta_Jed's Avatar
Fiesta_Jed
Regular Contributor
 
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 282
Likes: 0
From: scotland
Default

Originally Posted by J1mbo
Agreed, then plus a bit.
I follow the Honda scene a little and their claims are out of this world.
Eg 500whp civic at 18psi on a gt3076... No need to go on
What engine did that civic have B16/B18/K20 ?
Reply
Old Oct 16, 2013 | 08:15 PM
  #22  
J1mbo's Avatar
J1mbo
B1mbo
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,986
Likes: 1
From: Peterborough
Default

Originally Posted by Fiesta_Jed
What engine did that civic have B16/B18/K20 ?
Does it matter? none would do it..

But it was a b18.
Reply
Old Oct 16, 2013 | 08:51 PM
  #23  
costina's Avatar
costina
Live long and prosper!!
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 9,158
Likes: 373
From: area 51
Default

Originally Posted by J1mbo
Agreed, then plus a bit.
I follow the Honda scene a little and their claims are out of this world.
Eg 500whp civic at 18psi on a gt3076... No need to go on


And 3lbft at 9800 rpm
Reply
Old Oct 16, 2013 | 09:03 PM
  #24  
J1mbo's Avatar
J1mbo
B1mbo
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,986
Likes: 1
From: Peterborough
Default

Originally Posted by costina
And 3lbft at 9800 rpm
Everybody says this, I bought a civic type r with the k20a2 engine and it's a lovely driveable car and a riot screaming around at 8500rpm I think people get used to how it goes on cam and anything under feels gutless
Reply
Old Oct 16, 2013 | 09:26 PM
  #25  
turnover's Avatar
turnover
I've found that life I needed.. It's HERE!!
20 Year Member
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,100
Likes: 34
From: midlands
Default

Originally Posted by J1mbo
Everybody says this, I bought a civic type r with the k20a2 engine and it's a lovely driveable car and a riot screaming around at 8500rpm I think people get used to how it goes on cam and anything under feels gutless

But I'm sure your aware jimbo they do make good power when turboed ,there was a k20 with 35x on the dyno last month and was making 550 fw @ 15psi impressive compared to the yb ,but if the yb revved as high would probably be around a similar figure
Reply
Old Oct 16, 2013 | 10:56 PM
  #26  
J1mbo's Avatar
J1mbo
B1mbo
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,986
Likes: 1
From: Peterborough
Default

Originally Posted by turnover
But I'm sure your aware jimbo they do make good power when turboed ,there was a k20 with 35x on the dyno last month and was making 550 fw @ 15psi impressive compared to the yb ,but if the yb revved as high would probably be around a similar figure
The k20 is one hell of an engine, but it's not what the Americans claim.
That's mental power for that boost.. Who's dyno?
Reply
Old Oct 17, 2013 | 01:39 PM
  #27  
SiZT's Avatar
SiZT
Advanced PassionFord User
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,896
Likes: 5
From: Staffordshire
Default

Blah, blah, correction factors. Blah, blah, high comp engines that won't do anywhere near the power on regular pump fuel etc... etc...

The general rule of thumb is American whp = English bhp (atf). A story that sticks out in my head, a guy has a car, exact same spec in the states makes 270-280whp. Over here it makes 250bhp (atf) part of the issue was with the dyno operator but it realistically made 275-280bhp (atf). Is his car slower here than if it was in the states? No, it's just that the way the correction factors in the software for stuff like ambient temp, baro is different
Reply
Old Oct 17, 2013 | 03:12 PM
  #28  
turnover's Avatar
turnover
I've found that life I needed.. It's HERE!!
20 Year Member
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,100
Likes: 34
From: midlands
Default

Originally Posted by J1mbo
The k20 is one hell of an engine, but it's not what the Americans claim.
That's mental power for that boost.. Who's dyno?
Gordon's ,Maha lps3000
Reply
Old Oct 17, 2013 | 03:52 PM
  #29  
dojj's Avatar
dojj
Resident Wrestling Legend
20 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (3)
 
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 50,018
Likes: 259
From: Little India
Default

Seems like its the dyno correction factor then
Unless their power is measured in the same way as their gallons are?
Reply
Old Oct 17, 2013 | 07:20 PM
  #30  
costina's Avatar
costina
Live long and prosper!!
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 9,158
Likes: 373
From: area 51
Default

Originally Posted by J1mbo
Everybody says this, I bought a civic type r with the k20a2 engine and it's a lovely driveable car and a riot screaming around at 8500rpm I think people get used to how it goes on cam and anything under feels gutless

i'm just taking the piss jimbo I used to build the bloody things
good engine very rev happy as said good when charged
Reply
Old Oct 17, 2013 | 07:26 PM
  #31  
J1mbo's Avatar
J1mbo
B1mbo
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,986
Likes: 1
From: Peterborough
Default

Originally Posted by costina
i'm just taking the piss jimbo I used to build the bloody things
good engine very rev happy as said good when charged
I know bud
Hmm you may get pm'd shortly lol! I fancy taking mine a little further next year
Reply
Old Oct 17, 2013 | 07:29 PM
  #32  
J1mbo's Avatar
J1mbo
B1mbo
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,986
Likes: 1
From: Peterborough
Default

Originally Posted by turnover
Gordon's ,Maha lps3000
Ok, not sure who gordon is but Maha is regarded as quite a good roller to be. Fair..
Reply
Old Oct 17, 2013 | 07:43 PM
  #33  
costina's Avatar
costina
Live long and prosper!!
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 9,158
Likes: 373
From: area 51
Default

Originally Posted by J1mbo
I know bud
Hmm you may get pm'd shortly lol! I fancy taking mine a little further next year
I built them new I used to work for Honda wish I could of helped you out


Paul
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
mark94
Ford Mondeo Including ST
5
Oct 10, 2023 06:52 PM
tankybaby66
Cars for Sale
49
Feb 6, 2016 02:24 PM
phil51
Ford Focus Diesel
1
Oct 2, 2015 01:00 PM
Iain Mac
General Car Related Discussion.
7
Sep 30, 2015 09:39 PM
dojj
General Car Related Discussion.
2
Sep 29, 2015 10:32 PM




All times are GMT. The time now is 08:08 PM.