I'm sure we all remember the bad old days, with many a joke about not being able to extract 300bhp from a Subaru engine and when you did, it rattled it's big ends out! Couple this with weak gearboxs.

Whilst I FULLY understand you lot will rip me a new arse for evening going down this conversation route, but I thought I would just discuss how things have come along for the Impreza engine and it's tuning capabilities. We surely all love tuning!

Nearly all the reliability issues stopped when Subaru released the later Newage 2ltr models (engines were solid and 6sp gearbox set-ups fairly bullet proof). Big ends stopped rattling but the biggest issue then was the ability of the tuning industry around the the modification scene. Thankfully that has matured in a number of places and we really do have a few very knowledgeable mappers, that know their beans when it comes to Subaru tuning.

Unfortunately this all took a major backwards step with the introduction of the 2.5 unit. I feel that the scene has never recovered from that and the fact the same engine is still in current use for the US and EU market is beggers belief.

So we best stick with the EU Newage 2ltr or the superior JAP 2ltr (which is still in use on new JAP STI's to this day - thank god!).

Over recent years many people have been pushing the 2ltr OEM engines with some quite outstanding results.

The latest MAJOR development has been in the area of turbos. This has had a massive impact on what you can do and how you can do it.

There are a couple of turbo manufacturers that have been spending a fortune on development in this area and one of those has been Turbo Dynamics working with Litchfield Imports (of TYPE-25 fame).

I've been doing a lot of testing of development turbos with these two companies, which has basically ended up with this:

479.1bhp / 465ftlb - Red Line Meth Mix - Blue Line Straight VPower


For absolute clarity this is on OEM engined MY06 JDM STI with:
LM450 turbo
SFS intake hose
FMIC
Induction Kit
800cc injectors
3" decat

Standard engine, unopened, untouched, totally bog standard!
Standard ECU
Standard diffs and gearbox

When I also tell you that this set-up beats the original twinscroll set-up EVERYWHERE in the rev range, you then may fully understand the magnitude of this achievement.

I just think it's outstanding how things have moved on fairly recently and that the UK tuners are finally trailblazing on this stuff...... it's only took us about 15yrs!

Buy a 2ltr Newage quick before the prices go up!!!

 

You're maybe only discovering such things, the newage cars have been making great power in standard form for many years.

 

What fuel is that running? The headline figure is a bit misleading IMHO considering V power is 40-50Bhp down!

Nice power, but YB engines were doing this or close to 20 years ago

 

Most common is VPower + 10-20% methanol.

20% is the most to run though. The engine must be mapped to run whatever mix of methanol is chosen, and then that mix must be maintained.

 

I said recent years in my post.... i.e. up to 5. I'm not referring to the past 6 months. Although the turbo development is certainly more recent, being over the past 24 months.

 

It says just above the graph what the fuels are, sorry if it's not clear.

The higher figure is 20% methanol and 80% VPower.

 

What do you mean? You can run 100% if you want to and your fuel system is up to it.

 

Hello Sean, nice write up that, are you well pal?? VERY longtime no speak...

 

Hi Pete,
How's it hanging dude!

You're right..... it's been far too long.

All's good mate in the world of Subaru shizzle. How's the EVO going? How long you had this one and when you changing it? lol

 

100% is not the same as a mixture where you are relying on both fuels mixing properly.

Anything over 20% methanol and you cannot be sure the two fuels have properly mixed, which could result in a dangerous condition for the engine.

Plus of course the more you add, the more risk of damage to any unsuitable rubber parts etc within the system.
Staying below 20% should remain safe for a long time.

But obviously the fuel system in the car will need to cope with the extra flow demanded by mixing it with the petrol for any given power level

The biggest changes over the years though are largely down to modern turbochargers. They just keep getting better and better

 

Mmm.. I'd accept that perspective if you're mixing whilst filling, but if you mix outside of the car it's perfectly doable, but I understand your logic certainly for car filling.

Totally agree on your last point.

 

not in standard oem engine it didnt


Nice right up Sean i never realised that the 2.0ltr was that good i was always under the impression that the 2.5 was the one to have

 

I missed that comment you have quoted! I'd like to see a YB do this kind of power / torque on a standard engine and make it to the bottom of the road.

The 2.5 has had, shall we say, a chequered history. My previous SPEC C was converted to a Cosworth 2.5 and achieved over 600bhp on Q16 race fuel, utilising a standard position bolt on turbo. Up until only recently it was the highest powered 2.5 on a drop in turbo. My old SPEC C was blindingly quick and was seriously cleaning up on the Scooby Sprint Circuit scene in 2009. Even beating the likes of Andy Forrest (in his SPEC C) and the Lateral Banana "Race Car".... it was a seriously good package. The major downsides of the 2.5 is the liner integrity and major headgasket issues. Now my block never failed me, but it blew the HG's at about 9k miles..... although my car did have the arse knocked out of it during it's very hard life. Recent times have seen companies using block inserts which seem to be working, so perhaps the 2.5 can gain some reliability again. However, I wouldn't ever touch a standard one as they are prone to HG failure. It's a shame and a backwards step for the marque in many ways in my opinion.

The current trend appears to be moving to a 2.1 set-up. Using the 2ltr block you keep the increased strength and thickness of the 2ltr liners and just change the stroke.

 

I'm not talking about uneven percentages. Im saying for example that a 50/50mix you cannot guarantee both fuels will mix 100%
You could have pools of methanol and petrol that have not mixed properly

many people do use the 20% though and no doubt there are inaccuracies when they are filling up.
It isnt a route I'd take for a road car. I'd sooner inject methanol separately than rely on mixing.
Pouring it into the petrol tank on a road car, 90% of the time it's just getting wasted unless you drive like a maniac

 

It's only 72bhp more than my yB and mines standard engine.

 

Around the same as mine as well. Mine could of ran that in 1995, yours in 1986

 

Mines only limited cos the turbo out of puff lol

 

Same, we must be running the same kind of spec, goes well

 

And in 1986 and 1995 it would have made full boost at 6000rpm and run out of steam at 7000rpm lol

 

True, but it would of been great fun

 

Love coming in here to read about other non ford cars....

 

Look who it is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

You're right.... It's ONLY 20% more power! Lol

 

Like I said.. You can easily mix any quantity of meth mix outside of the car, properly.

Inaccuracies on filling should be caused by an inaccuracy at the pump itself. 20% fuel strategy is so easy to deal with. Anyway, with our modern ECU's minor inaccuracies can be dealt with. Like you say many people have been doing this for years.

 

How's it going Mark?

 

And it's only 26 years too late lol

 

How many millions of pounds (or what ever currency) have gone into the development of that engine? Im guessing a lot! So a 10% increase every 10 years is pritty shit, would you not agree?

Lets be honest here, if its Jap its scrap. Passionscooby or passionford...... i subscribed to passionford?

 

some of the best cars ive owned have been jap but still passionate about certain fords but over the years people who have sold fords and moved on to other cars have still remained on the forum due to there passion for fords and being petrolheads but own bmw's scoobies , evo's ect ! Its a good job most havnt got your attitude as passionford would be scratching it arse with nothing to do and nothing going on

 

Better late then never!

 

Probably about as much that has gone in to the development of the YB!

Why the hatred!

I was driving 500+bhp RS500's 10yrs ago along with Escort Cosworths.... the world has changed. I been there and wore the t-shirt, so it's time to experience the other fruits of life. Life is too short to be living in the past.

As regards to this being passionford ergo all Ford.... have you read the forums recently! 80% of the members don't even own Ford's anymore.

I have no issues with Cossies.... I've owned enough of them as many of you know. But come on change the record!

 

You can tell you're of the old crew Jay - you speak way too wisely for a newbie!

 

Looks like good figures, I have just fitted a Blouch unit to a friends car, hopefully that will do some similar numbers on V power, not a stock engine though.

What boost do you run to achieve that power ?

 

been here a few years now

And tbh i love all cars as i think theres always something cool about everyone of them either history or design ect well actually not all cars mate the rx7 rotary wtf fuck is that about ? i cant makes my mind wether its just witch craft or a big tumble dryer with a blower on it either way its wrong engines have bits the go up and down and now and again go through the block not spin in circles

 

A surperb well thought out argument,not a blinkered approach at all

The facts are a lot of us,have been in to Fords and now moved on to something else,most of us better cars.
Personaly ive been in to Fords since was 18, but moved on to Jap stuff about 7 years back, still like the RS scene in general, love the new rsfocus,BUT You really must take your head from up your arse and see there is a different would around you.

 

Is the Blouch unit from ScoobyClinic?

The peak figures are impressive for a standard 2ltr engine, but it's the powerband on these latest turbos (and how lowdown it starts) that is the impressive part imo.

1.8bar peak to 1.6 at the redline. Enough for a standard engine but certainly not loads for what some of these turbos can run within their maps.

 

There is common thread here for maturity - check the join date - unless your name is RS_matt!

 

I believe that is the original supplier, its the SC46 billet, I got it through a friend locally after they upgraded to a rotated 35r kit.

We are on 1.65 bar currently held to the limiter, spools ok, power is solid, needs to be tweaked to 2 bar to see the real gains tbh. The ESL board it uses needs reconfiguring for a different map sensor then we will have a better idea of what its capable of, will have to try some meth in it as well.

The car is a classic RA with the DCCD 6 speed, plated diffs, Buddyclub coilovers etc and a 500hp spec engine from Paul at Zen, it was on a 20G hybrid and the Blouch unit is better but possibly a bit big for the 2l, either way the car is well setup so handles brilliantly, just needs the extra power.

 

I assume it's non VVT?

 

Yes non VTT

 

Sorry I didn't mean my post to come across as blinkered, but a 2.0l turbo engine, be it YB, evo or impreza are all broadly similar for given power outputs, most of the tuning improvements have come down to material technology & engine managent development, and fuel technology.

Bolt on modern management & turbo to a YB & it will do the numbers, simple as.

A lot of people love to knock them, but it just shows how far ahead of the game Cosworth were TWENTY SIX (26!) years ago producing a production 2.0l engine that is as capable & tuneable, that other manufacturers have only recently got close to!