Hi.

After some advice. I bought a car in early march 2012. Fiesta Zetec s tdci for the sum of £6300. Before I went to look at the car I did a hpi check including outstanding finance, insurance write off etc. All came back clear and no problems

Today while I was out a guy turned up claiming a company still has financial interest in the car, he has left a questionnaire for me to fill out and return to the finance recovery company. I have since done another full check and again all is showing clear on the vehicle.

I have to give the guy who came round a call tomorrow to see what happens next but just after some advice on where I stand? I have done 2 checks via different companies and both have shown clear. Any info/help I can get before I call the guy/company tomorrow would be of great help

Many thanks.

 

Take a look at this
https://passionford.com/forum/genera...g-finance.html

 

Did this guy leave his info as to who he represents?

Best to go seek legal advice

Your lucky in that there is a separate thread still active about this very situation, the lads on the thread are saying you have nothing to worry about because you have clear title to the car under the " innocent purchaser" guise

Me personally I wouldn't be so sure but if you have paperwork from two independent company's showing nothing I can't figure it out, is this guy who called to you a chancer scam artist

 

Thanks for the reply. I wasn't in when the guy called so need to call him tomorrow and also ring the chasing company to hear there views on it.

Just want to get a bit of a heads up as I'm a bit stumped/confused how they can show clear but get this letter out the blue.

 

just because the finance company "forgot" to update the register doesnt mean finance isnt owing.

Worst case scenario you have the garuntee from your hpi check.

if youve got a garage, lock car in garage and cover the windows so the debt collectors cant see it. At least that way they have no legal justification to break into the garage as they cant see the car, so if they did, you already have one up on them.

Was it bought privately? Do you know when the finance originated from?

Look up the innocent purchaser defence and spout it at the debt collector if he comes back. Follow it up in writing sent by recorded delivery.

Do be aware that if they want to be hostile, they will lie to you and the debt collector will make all sorts of false claims. Eg claim he is a baliff acting on behalf of the court etc.

if he truley was a baliff with a court order, he is legally obliged to show it to you. Also not forgetting if they have taken you to court, they must legally have served papers on you as the current registered keeper. they cannot reasonably claim they didnt have an address as how did they find you now??

Whatever you do, do NOT allow them to take the car. If it means getting arrested then so be it. They may try and use force worst case but it WILL be illegal without a court order. Also if they involve the police, the police presence is allowed only to prevent the breach of the peace so if the debt collector gets a copper to threaten you with arrest if you get in the way, then immediately challenge the copper and threaten him to make a complaint too. Should then drag out the duty sgt or senior officer who should then take the "its a civil matter" line and get the copper to stop doing the debt collectors dirty work.

But thats all worst case

What should happen if its a respectable finance company who follows the law and OFT policies, is that they will investigate to clarify if you were an innocent purchaser. As an innocent purchaser, your good title comes above that of the finance house meaning they cant make a claim against you or the vehicle and they should declare formally no further interest in the vehicle.

 

How did they know where the car was? Is the car kept at the address thats on the logbook? Im still baffled how that guy with the astra i was interested in had managed to avoid having his repossessed for 3 years!

 

I'd be interested in this too, if they haven't updated the finance on te database and when hpi did their checks and it came back clear that would lead me to believe that they used perhaps police info systems to find the current owner of car reg xxx???

How else would they arrive at this chaps door

 

Best thing to do is get the car hidden away.

I would'nt complete any forms at all until seeking legal advice first.

 

Thanks for the replies so far, some useful information.

Bit of an update, tried to call the collections aganecy today who trade under the name of northwest collections and recoveries, the phone rang about 8 times then came up with an answerphone mesaage welcome to the 02 messaging service, strange?

I then phones the guy who visited whilst i was out. All they have been asked to do is deliver the questionnaire and at the moment have no interest in the car themselves. After a lengthy chat with the guy who was very helpfull, i explained i had hpi'd the car prior to buying it and it came back clear, He said that i took all the precautions i could to make sure the car was clear from any finance etc and said i have nothing to worry about.

But what should i do with the questionnaire? I dont want to be giving out all my personal details eg job title, company i work for etc when i cannot see how there is finance on the car if its come back clear twice, with a 5 month gap between checks.

What action should i take next? I have done a google search for the company but cant seem to find anything bad about them, scam etc

 

You don't need to and can't use the PNC just to find a car with outstanding finance. Anyone making improper use of the system faces very severe penalties.

The finance company simply have to write to DVLA explaining their interest in the vehicle and pay a fee for the current keeper details, just like a parking enforcement company. DVLA hand over the name and address of the keeper and away you go.

 

Are these the people?
http://nwcollections.com/aboutus.htm

I wouldn't be filling in any forms yet, but you will at some point have to establish that you bought the car in good faith. The finance co needs to know about you to eliminate any links to the debtor (if he was your next door neighbour or a workmate for instance, then it is harder for you to argue you didn't know him or about the finance.)

 

Hi

Yes that is the company he represents and have a headed paper letter from them, although the website to me seems a little basic for the kind of company it is.

The guy on the phone said he cannot see me having a problem with proving i had no knowledge of outstanding finance as

1 The seller lives about 60 miles from me
2 I have 2 hpi reports claiming its free from finance
3 I have a receipt from the seller for the transaction etc

Is there anyway i can locate/contact the finance company direct to try and sort it out with them and find out, what kind of outstanding finance it has against it, why it doesnt show up on hpi? I dont know who the finance company are and i cannot see the other company passing on any info due to data protection.

Thanks

 

One of the strange things about finance secured on assets is that the lender is not obliged to record the security anywhere, not even on HPI, Experian etc.

Realistically, the only way to discover the lender is to ask the seller or to ask the collections agent. He may cite client confidentiality, DPA or whatever but the simple fact is that you have rights to your confidentiality too and have done nothing wrong so you want to know who your private info is to be supplied to. It is important to be co-operative because that demonstrates good faith which forms part of the "innocent purchaser" defence.
I wouldn't recommend asking the seller because A) it is another contact between you both, and B) getting the info from him could suggest a link between you.

Meantime, I would get in touch with HPI to warn them that you have a potential claim under your guarantee from them and they will want to get involved to minimise how much a settlement costs them - for instance, they may choose to make enquiries to identify the lender (I'm not certain, but think they can circulate the vehicle details to lenders to see if anyone puts their hand up). Even if they can't/won't do that, by starting your claim now it minimises the time the whole thing might take to wrap up.

 

One other thing: How does the £6300 you paid compare to the price then for other similar cars?

If it was very cheap, you may have some explaining to do as to why alarms bells didn't ring. If it is about right for the year/model/condition, that adds additional strength to your defence.

 

Hi

price was inline with other cars of simular age and spec, mileage. on the first hpi report market value came back as £6500 so inline with there valuation.

I have just contacted the company again and have been informed the outstanding finance is higher purchase and no any type of log book loan etc.

They are very confident that i have done everything i need to to prove i had no knowledge of the outstanding finance.

I think my next move would be to take all the paperwork with me to go and see a solicitor and see what they say.

Any other info would be very helpfull

 

They cant refuse to tell you who the original lender is as ultimately the dispute is between you and the lender. The debt collection company is merely working on behalf of the lender. If it ever went to court, it would be the lenders solicitor who would have to turn up.

However the debt may have been sold on, in which case its whoever its been sold on to that you want to know.

Unless its an in house debt collection department (often under different trading names) then the debt collection people are just middle men.

It can be a pain in the arse sometimes though as the different departments and agencys dont always talk to each other and you may have resolved the issue with the originator and they have failed to call off thier debt dogs. I had that with orange when i cancelled a contract for shit service. Returned phone etc to find out months later that orange collections wanted £30 off me for an unpaid bill yet id paid the bill to the retail side of orange when i returned phone and cancelled

its not even as complicated as that. DVLA are very lax with handing out info and even offer online access for a fee for certain companies and debt collection agencys are one type of company that use such access.

Also a lot of the bigger vehicle debt collection companies use ANPR vans as they are often looking for hundreds of vehicles (especially if they also have contracts with the local council to pursue parking tickets).

 

Top advice....like to see them wriggle seeing as that's exactly what you are. Finance companies don't like getting involved in that line of defense as it costs fortunes and in most cases they lose the case.

 

Managed to find out a bit more information. Phoned up the company that supplied the questionnaire and advised I was a uneasy giving out my details when as far as I can see there is no problem with the car. They gave me the company details they are working on behalf of, bluestone credit management.

I have phone this company and they confirm that they have contracted northwest collections and recoveries to act on there behalves. I continued to ask for a copy of the finance agreement or documents showing details with the purchasers details blanked out. To this they refused saying about data protection act.

What is my next port of call? Shall I return the questionnaire and wait to hear back from them?

I have booked to see a solicitor who specialises in finance etc but cannot get an appointment until 14th august.

Thanks.

 

just look up more about innocent purchaser defence.

You will probably find a template letter that contains the pertinant points. If not, the law isnt too long or complicated so you can qoute away.

Get the first blow in early Should things turn nasty, it would look bad on the finance company in court if they recieved a letter claiming the defence and seized a car or aggressively pursued a debt without investigating the defence properly.

Oh remember send it recorded and CC it to the solicitors (even put it on the letter that its cc'd to xxx solicitors). Covers your back if they try and deny it and also will show them you are serious now by having copied it to your solicitor. Doesnt really matter if you cant see them until tuesday, its unlikely the issue would have been properly looked at let alone dealt with by then.

 

oh and on data protection you only need give them basic correspondance information (ie name and address) and details surrounding the purchase of the car. Anything else is them fishing to catch you out or intelligence to use against you.

If they know where you work and the kind of job you do, then they know when your likely to be out the house and if you dont use the car for work, know when they can seize it unchallenged.

Also means they know where to come if you commute in it, they know which work car park or area to look in. Also if they want to be arseholes they will turn up at work to deliberately embarass you. It is completely illegal and classed as harassment to go after a debtor in the workplace yet they do it anyway as it yeilds good results.

Used to happen loads in the forces. technically MoD policy was that it doesnt get involved with private mattters and the letter to the debt company would remind them they are breaking FSA and OFT guidelines. However if as a DO of a sailor/soldier you start getting such debt letters you are supposed to investigate it incase the debts become a security issue or you suspect the individual is financially irresponsible. You can be chucked out the forces for it worst case! Debt companies know that happens so are happy to ignore the FSA and do it anyway as theyd just get a telling off if anyone challenged them on it.

Its not so serious in the civvy world but if your in a privaleged position, work in finance etc you could get in shit with debts coming to the workplace.

So dont give out any info other than basics.

 

I returned the questionnair on Friday recorded delivery so the company would have received it on Monday.

Had a phone call today and they have reviewed the evidence and have withdrawn there intrest in the car. I'm over the moon. Very impressed with the speed at which they dealt with the matter.

Thanks to those who took the time to reply for the knowledge and input.

 

cool. anything else would just make them out to be shysters.

So for once a finance company following the rules. maybe there is hope?

 

Good stuff,always helps to face these things up politely rather than just ignoring it as often there's a simple explanation to it all.
Glad it's gone well.

 

Thats good new's but i would want that in writing if it was me tbh.
Hope you have no other problems with it.