hello,
i want to know if there is a brake kit 4 pot calipers plus discs bells etc. to fit on sierra cosworth 2wd under the standard 15'' wheels.

thanks

 

hi spec do a kit

 

send Tony an email (see my sig below)

 

Worth speaking to user "Charlie" as well.
He had to use 15" wheels in his race series

 

Yeah, I have used HiSpec R132 (I think that's what they are called) 4 pot calipers under Sharktooth wheels using standard brake discs, and I now have an AP kit which I've just fitted. Martin at Reyland was pricing up an AP kit for me as I was thinking of buying one new but it was coming out at around £1800 I think.

The Hispec were a good budget option but not good on the race track - hence the move to AP.

Picture of the Hispecs under 15"s:
https://passionford.com/forum/ford-s...pictorial.html

Charlie

 

Hi Charles, the pictures are no longer available, do you have other links to show? thanks!

 

Reyland will do a kit. Decent fluid, quality discs and updated pads are pretty good thoigh

 

Hi, I'm only aware they have big disc kit using stock caliper, is the kit you mentioned still under development and if you know it will fit 4x4 Saph using stock wheels? Thanks!

 

You would need to speak to Martin at Reyland.

 

So this is something custom made for each customers rather than an off the shelf product?

 

There is no kit for a Sapph 4x4 on standard wheels. There is simply no room for a bigger disc or caliper due to the low brake disc offset.

 

What a sad news to hear, I guess adding wheel spacers can do the job?

 

There is a kit available for the 2wd with standard wheels. But I think the difference in brake disc offset between 2wd and 4x4 is about 2 cm. And you don’t want to fit 2 cm spacers to the front of the 4x4, as it will look terrible and will handle badly as well.

 

There are really good big brake kits available but you need to go up to 17x8 inch wheels with an ET35 offset to clear the bigger calipers. Are you more interested in improving braking or in keeping the car completely standard with the original 15 inch wheels?

 

Thanks for the valuable information, does it mean if I use sets of wheels which has smaller offset and that sits further out (which is almost equivalent to using wheel spacers) would upset the car's handing? I always though less chassis rolling can be achieved if wheels are sitting further out.

 

Yea, meanwhile I'd like to keep the original 15' wheels so everything looks stock and less headache haha.

I'm looking for options for what I can improve from there.

The suggestion in using 17 x 8J wheels is something that I have always been thinking, but from what I saw, everyone's setup are still seems to be using 205 tyres (same as original 15' spec) and I don't seem to find anyone who had ever fitted something wider (i.e. 215 or 225), some said you will need to modify and roll the front fender to avoid rubbing with wider tires setup, this really bugs me

 

You are right in thinking it reduces chassis rolling. But that difference is really small as it is the track width versus the height of the centre of gravity, and the difference on the track width is not much compared to the total track width. But the negative handling is caused by the difference is scrub radius. The scrub radius is the distance between the centre of the tyre and the point where the tyre rotates when the steering wheel is turned as is very important for the steering feel. I don't know how much the normal scrub radius of the 4x4 Cosworth is, but on most cars it normally is something like 0.5 to 1 cm. Adding wheel spacers of 1 or 2 cm changes it a lot and doesn't help the handling.

BTW, I have 17x8 wheels on my 4x4 Cosworth with big brakes. The tyres are 215/40, but the front and rear arches indeed have been rolled.

 

I have 215/40/17 tyres on my 17 inch wheels but my Saff has been lowered by 35mm so all arches have been rolled. If you have standard height suspension you probably won't have to roll the arches. You slightly confuse me. If you want to keep your Saff standard including engine, suspension etc you really will not need to upgrade the standard brakes or wheels and tyres as the original Ford set up should be able to cope with the standard power. Having a standard Saff has never been of any interest to me so I have modified mine to cope with the 450 bhp it produces.It's personal choice, a lot of owners want to keep everything standard and others like to modify their cars.

 

You can run 7,5x17" offset35 with 215/40 or 225/35 with Eibach lowering springs and OE Arches....I have done that the first 18 years on my 88' 2wd Sapp. without any problems

I do think that 8x17" offset35 would be ok too with same tyres

 

Hi Tom, when you say OE Arches, do you mean you still have factory fenders and not rolled?

Do you have photos that I can see how this setting (17' x 7.5J ET35) looks on the both front and rear fender?

I'd like to see whether they could go perfectly vertical in line with the fenders. Thanks!

 

Hi Marc, thank you very much for your detailed explanations on the technical point of view in terms of handling if the wheel sits further out. I think I get what you mean.

So can I understand that when upgrading bigger wheels, a setting that will not upset steering feel OR handling of the car would be keeping the center turning point of the tyre/wheel as close to the original 15' wheel settings (or vertical to the hub point) as possible?

I have attached 2 calculations pictures below (one being sits further out 17 x 7.5J ET35, while the other sits further out and inner 17 x 8J ET40) and I wonder if the setting on the right "theoretically" have most minimum, if not, no impact to steering feel or upsetting handling at all?

Thanks!

 

Hi, my approach to modifications is to keep the car low key whenever possible, not obvious in general and practical to realistic roads conditions.

It currently has Koni Sports kit -25mm lowered and AD08R tires on stock wheels. It has MSD Stage 2 package so I'm using Ferodo 2500 pads to stop it better.

I am however for sure would be interested if there is a product that could stop the car even better, whilst retaining "low key".

My understanding to the consequences for fender rolling is that it may not hold the fender splash guard properly and this is why I'm concerned.

Having said that, I think I must be fully convinced and have found a setting that will fulfill all the following criteria before proceeding with the wheel upgrade:

1. Go perfectly vertical in line with the fenders (whenever possible);
2. No fender rollings are necessary (unless unavoidable);
3. Will not upset steering feel OR handling of the car as "Marc sierra" suggested;
4. Can fit 215/40 or 225/40 and above tires from a few of my favorite tire makes/models (I cannot accept the fact that I will continue using 205 width if I upgraded the wheels);
5. Can fit Reyland's AP kit; and
6. Will not rub the suspension struct (can switch to coilover setup if that could give me more clearance).

 

The ET value is measured from the centre of the wheel, so with a 17x8 ET40 it will not be different than for 15x7 ET40. But the line through the strut top bearing and bottom ball joint is not vertical. So if the tyre diameter is a bit bigger the intersection of the line with the ground also moves away a bit. For that reason ET35 for a 215/40 R17 will not be much different anyway.

What I fine strange though is the fact that the Escort Cosworth is running the same uprights/knuckles as the Sierra Cosworth 4x4, but has a ET of 25 instead of 40. So at least 1 of the 2 is not optimal, and I would expect that to be the Escort, as the knuckle was developed for the Sierra and copied to the Escort. And I believe the Escort is said to not have such great steering feel....

Anyway, back to your questions. 225/40/17 tyres don’t exist and 225/35/17 are rare as well. So the best option would be to have 215/40/17. The best wheel for that in my opinion is 17x7.5 ET35, as the tyre then sits straight with the rim edge. This will also clear the Koni strut. Brakes should fit in a 17” wheel, but it depends largely on the design of the wheel. Reyland should be able to tell you what combination will work.