still trying to figure out exaclty what is causing the never ending tappety noise on my saph, stripped the head off and checked that i have oil flow through the block, removed the dizzy and put a drill with socket on the end down to the pump drive, all 3 oilways have a even flow, some tiny air bubbles were present but it didn't make me concerned. it's always had decent enough oil pressure, 70mph on the motorway it's always had roughly 4 bar pressure.

today i decided to take the lifters out and bolt the head back down so i could repeat the procedure checking the flow through the head, well, i'm not really sure what to make of it all, the oil is more or less spitting up full of air bubbles and the lifters on 3/4 seem to be getting hardly any oil through them at all. took a couple of videos so would appreciate some input.





could it just be the drill isn't spinning the pump up fast enough? unlikely i'm thinking

could it be a restriction in the head? i'm not convinced anymore as the oil flow through the turbo oil feed pipe is also start stop.

should i just stop kidding myself and get the bottom end out and get the oil pump out?

 

Think you need to look at the pump the air is the odd bit almost like the pick up tube is pulling air , is the tapping up top ? is the pressure sender on a low gallery ?

 

yep tapping is top end without a doubt. pressure sender is on a adapter when the original oil pressure switch fits.

 

blank off the turbo feed pipe and try your test again taking a reading from your oil pressure gauge
did you take an oil pressure reading before you stripped the cams and lifters out using your drill to drive the pump

 

OK thats odd its like you have good pressure were the sender is but the head and lifters sound starved ,I would still wont to check the pump if it was me .

 

You're missing a few important points here, oil is lazy and will go the easiest route, so wil naturally come out of the nearest way out from the supply, if this were blocked say by a tappet, this would mean the pressure would seek alternative routes, ie other tappet holes.
The rear tappets always are the first to suffer from pressure/supply problems.
This is mostly due to the carbonised/congealed oil being pushed to the rear of the oil gallery each side of the head, that is why it is imperative to clean out with a brush and parrafin or similar both oil galleries, some can need a bloody good hefty poke to break through the crap at the rear of the channel each side, normally worse on the exhaust side channel due to the extra heat baking the oil deposits even harder, don't forget the dizzy is turning at half engine speed, and your drill may not be turning that fast, having had the head off etc there will be a time before all trapped air in the head casting will be dislodged, the tappets need very little in the way of lube quantity wise.
tabetha

 

As Tabetha, Put the lifters back in the front and I'm sure you will see plenty more oil coming to the back.

Where are the lifters from? IIRC, there were some doing the rounds from a different car that were ever so slightly smaller, so would be a bit tappy.

 

cold idle it reaches around 80psi, drops back to around 40psi hot idle and to be honest i'm not sure at 2k hot as i've never really taken much notice of it there but at 3-3.5k it's around 65-70psi

gauge hit 45psi yesterday just spinning it up on the drill with a new battery. if the gasket between the pick up pipe and pump was at fault would i still get good pressure but get air in the oil? i've just never seen so much air in oil before! noticed before i took it apart when the engine is running the oil ends up looking almost milky in the head due to the amount of tiny air bubbles in the oil but i've never seen that before on other cars!

 

Certainly nothing at all wrong with that oil pressure.
The heads danny refers to can be repaired, and resized back to std, not cheap though.
tabetha

 

if it is an over size head it is clearly marked on the rear of head showing guide and/or bucket over size
if the oil is that aerated,and if it is a 2wd pump it is possible the pick up pipe gasket has been fitted the wrong way round if this is the case sack the engine builder pronto

 

that would be me then would the oil pressure still be good though if the gasket was at fault? if it is, it is, not like it's expensive to sort that out but i'm gonna feel a cock!

 

if you want to feel a cock be my guest as long as it isn't my cock your feeling
is it a 2wd oil pump a bit more engine spec woul be helpful

 

fpmsl!made me spit my tea out that did

 

i knew as soon as i hit that i was going to regret it!

yes it's a 2wd car, engine, pump. rebuilt the engine 18 months ago due to head gasket rotting away and it hitting 70k so decided to give it a refresh, engine was perfectly quiet before rebuild bar a puff of smoke on over run which turned out to be the turbo, 1st start up of the engine it was tappy on the top end which has never gone away, if you take it for a good blast at a constant high speed when you pull up it's nice and quiet but then sit with it ticking over a couple of minutes and it taps again or turn off then when you start up it taps again.

engine spec is;

ported/polished head
BD14 inlet/standard exhaust cams
7.8:1 CR
new pistons with valve cut outs
mls head gasket
ACL bearings through out
burton high pressure oil pump

 

the aerated oil is a little concerning
are you sure it is aerated, clearly our problem is we can't see, hear or examine it from our key boards
I have only ever seen this once and it was incorrect fitting of the oil pick up pipe gasket
It had been fitted the wrong way round
best you think long and hard and picture yourself fitting the pick up gasket
There have also been alot of oil pump issues these last 8 years
If the problem turns out to be the pick up gasket get you cock out slam the bonnet on it a few times and then send me 500 quid in cash

 

Air in the oil isn't going to be caused by the gasket being the wrong way around.

 

I'll reword it martin wrong way up
/ incorrectly fitted

 

Hey Tony It doesn't matter how you reword it, how is that going to cause air in the oil?

 

??? !!!!
if the gasket is fitted the wrong way round/ up it will not seal
it only fits one way but can be fitted the wrong way causing a poor seal

 

Drop a gasket on the wrong way round and take a look....

 

genuine 2wd ford pump genuine 2wd ford gasket
fitted the wrong way can cause an air leak
I know this for a fact I am not wrong as i stated earlier in on this topic I have seen this problem once and once only
aerated oil, noisy tappets turned out the gasket had been fitted the wrong way round causing an air leak
gasket fitted correctly problem solved

 

I have just tried a genuine gasket and it still has about 3mm on the thin side if fitted the wrong way round, it also restricts the pipe I/D from 12.3 mm to an oval 9.5mm. Not ideal but as long as everything is flat then I'd say it would seal. Surely if it wasn't sealing then oil wouldn't pick up at all?

 

not the best picture as i was working with my iphone but you can see the oil has gone milky looking through the amount of air in it, this is how it looks constantly when the engine is running.

 

i'm trying to cast my mind back to how the oil pump fits up, there's a locating dowl between the pump and block? gasket between pick up pipe and pump but then is there a o ring between a smaller pipe and the pump? it's the one and only time i've had the bottom end of this engine apart so it's all feeling a bit distant to be honest

 

There is an O ring on the spray bar, it normally stays in place when you strip the two halves. I'd have the sump of an take a look, at leat you can rule that part out or fix the problem.

 

i seem to recall it staying attatched to the pipe when i pulled it out. could that be causing any grief if i caught it when refitting?

am i just as well off to pull the bottom end out, get some new gaskets and a new pump and start again? i just can't face building it all back up to find it still tapping! it'd end up in the parts for sale as breaking car

 

Martin off topic ut check your email

 

The only way to be sure that there is air in the oil and that its not just making bubbles as it leaves the ports in the head, is to put the lifters back in and then connect a length of clear pipe to the turbo feed pipe. look for bubbles in the clear pipe (after a good wind on the drill, to purge the system, it may need a charge lol) Does sound like a pick up problem TBH

 

Rather than messing about why not have the bottom end out and get it all looked at by a pro?

 

because that's like admitting defeat. i'm a fully qualified mechanic, built plenty of engines over the years (mainly diesels though) so would like to think i've got some kind of idea what i'm doing but being my own car and not having a massive wedge of cash to spunk on it is starting to get annoying.

 

take the sump off, bet it will all become apparent, at least you have spotted a problem now before its too late

 

correct way


incorrect way

 

Do you think that would ever pick up oil? We had a car with a cracked pick up pipe once and it would'nt pick up oil, I'd guess that would do the same?

New gasket...

 

Just measured 3 pumps on the shelf and that hole measured 15mm, 15.7mm and 14.2mm So it seems it depends on pump!

 

your pic shows the gasket not central to the bolt holes
the air will be drawn in around the pressure relief valve retaining plug

 

depending how much vacuum is lost via the leak whether of not the pump would pick up oil and make pressure.cranking speed would be another contributing factor as would a pre primed oil system

 

Its the angle of the shot, but as I have already mentioned there are varying bore sizes in the 2wd pumps anyway. I hope I'm wrong and that's his problem as its an easy fix.

 

not much else would could aerated oil if in fact the oil is actually aerated
most obvious and likely is the pick up gasket,pick up pipe and dodgy pump are the next
easy whilst the sump is off to check all 3
infact and I'm sure you'd agree that you or I cold have had the sump off job checked and fixed and back on in less time than we have spent helping on this topic
and earn't some money for our expertise

 

So true! Hope you're not offering to do the job though!!! Wouldn't that be breaking the rules?

 

Sounds to me like you've dubbed the audio over from some dodgy porn flick