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Old Oct 13, 2010 | 09:06 PM
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Default Cossie T5

So I am trying to figure out what kind of T5 I have.. according to info on north american ford stuff after 1984 we went from the standard T5 to the world class T5. the WC runing atf instead of 80/90 trans fluid. my trans had nothign in it, reading this site I saw a post saying use 80/90..so thats what I did... but it shifts like a pile of crap. So I am curious did the Cossie get a WC T5 or a NWC T5? though I'm more so counting on my trans just sucks... if thats the case I'm wondering if I can use a Camaro WC T5 in place of trying to ship a cossie trans in.. or just for the sake of throwing ideas out.. a Tremmec T5.

World Class & Non-World Class
There are two basic kinds of T-5's, Non World Class (NWC) and World Class (WC). The first T-5 was non-world class. In 1983 and 84 Ford used the Non-World Class T-5 to improve the Mustangs performance and gas mileage. All the V8 NWC boxes had 2.95 first gear set with .68 overdrive. All the main output shaft gears and 1st, 2nd, 3rd, gears riding on a solid output shaft with deep oil grooves to provide lubrication. The lower counter gears spin on straight cylindrical bearings with a thrust washer in front to provide support when under load. All the synchronizer rings are made of solid bronze which are of different size than those found in a would-class T-5. It is because there is no bearing under each gear and the bronze synchro rings that the NWC use the heavy 70w gear oil. Torque rating for the NWC was 265ft/lbs.

1985, Ford introduced the World Class T-5 installed with 3.35 first gear set with a .68od behind the 5.OL. T-5 was also used behind both the standard 2.3L with a 3.97 first gearset and the SVO Mustang. SVO received a one year only 3.50 first gear ratio as the 3.97 gear ratio was too low for the added power of the turbo charged 2.3L. No longer were 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gears spinning on a solid output shaft as needle bearings were installed under each gear to reduce drag. The lower counter gears saw tapered bearings to replace the bronze thrust washer. All main shaft synchro's were fiber lined steel rings to improve rings friction surface while 5th remains bronze. By improving the surface friction the synchro slows the gear faster making for smoother shifts. The design remained the same until 1989. Torque rating remained the same at 265ft/lbs.

1990 to 1993 the stock Ford production V-8 WC T-5 was upgraded with stronger 3.35 gear set by increasing the nickel content to produce a harder, stronger gear. 2nd and 3rd gear ratios were decreased slightly tp provide more torque to the rear wheels. Synchro linings on 3rd, 4th were improved by changing from fiber linings to carbon fiber to further improve the friction surface resulting in better high rpm shifts. A longer throw shifter was installed to "make shifting easier". The speedo drive gear was changed from 7 tooth to 8 tooth. The 8 tooth was a step backwards when installing lower rear axle ratio greater than 3.55 as the driven gear is limited to 21tooth count. Yes, 23 tooth gears are available but do not last long as the teeth are thin and do not mesh correctly. Torque rating jumped to 300ft/lbs.

When the 93 Cobra was introduced, so was the "Cobra Spec" T-5. It was the first T-5 with a front tapered output bearing and steel front bearing retainer. The Cobra boxes also received a reverse gear brake and synchro assembly where there was none before. Just about everything else remained the same. Torque rating was increased to 310ft/lbs.

1994 and 95 were the last two years Ford used the T-5 behind a V-8. With the introduction of the SN95 Mustangs, the bell housings in both 3.8L and 5.0L were made deeper to place the T-5 shifter in the correct location to the body. This in turn made the input shaft longer. The neutral safety switch was eliminated, as it was no longer needed. The GT 5.0L Mustangs received the standard input shaft bearing and aluminum bearing retainer, where the Cobras continued with the tapered or "cupped bearing" input shaft and steel front bearing retainer. Torque ratings for both remained the same as the 93 T-5 models. 4 cylinder T-5s were no longer needed when the 3.8L V6 motor came along and was replaced with 3.35 first gear ratio and a .68od. The only difference between the 3.8L and standard 5.0L T-5 was the input shaft length. Changing input shaft of the 3.8L T-5 with 93 input shaft, will result in a 93 and early spec T-5. Everything else remained the same.

Today's V-6 Mustangs sports the last of the T-5s. The T-5 behind the 3.8L is a 3.35 first gear set with a .68 over drive. What makes these different from the rest is the electronic speedometer trigger. No longer is there a mechanical driven cable system. It has the longer input shaft equipped with a steel front bearing retainer and reverse synchro brake assembly. Torque rating is 300ft/lbs.

Ford also used the T-5 in 2.3L cars through the years. While the 4 cylinder T-5 may appear to be the same, they are not. Most 4 cylinder T-5s received a 3.97 gear set with a .79 overdrive and small input pilot bearing shaft. Four cylinder T-5's should not be used behind a V-8, even when the pilot bearing id is decreased to match. Simply put, they will not hold up. Torque rating ~240ft/lbs. Besides first gear is much too low to be usable behind a high horse power car.
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Old Oct 13, 2010 | 09:28 PM
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The cosworth t5 is the wc one...just chuck a tremec tko 600 in there or similar..


cheers danny
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Old Oct 13, 2010 | 10:50 PM
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ah ok cool. so in the mean time though should I drain the 80/90 and put in ATF?
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Old Oct 13, 2010 | 11:09 PM
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i remember READING somewhere years ago the mustang t5 is the same except the splines are imperial and not metric?
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Old Oct 14, 2010 | 07:22 AM
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There are as you know over 100 versions of the T5, the T5 used in our cossie was indeed WC, however when they were made initially they had the pads on the fingers of the selector forks made from a type of compressed card, ATF would happily destroy these pads, that is why ford commissioned a special ATF, ie not your regular stuff.
Additionally ATF has very less shear ability but gear oil has it in abundance, another point to note is ATF is VERY slippery(ford even used this as a bodge in press cars to squeeze more mpg), good you'd have thought but not for the synchro rings which actually need FRICTION in order to do their job well.
tabetha

Last edited by tabetha; Oct 14, 2010 at 08:11 PM.
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Old Oct 14, 2010 | 08:17 PM
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Had some good news on my box today, 5th gear is safe, but every synchro on every gear set is worn, but I do the 3 piece rings, and has the plastic pads on forks, tranny guy said the oe paper ones were only used for around 2 years, and all should be safe afterwards, with that, and the design of the synchro's I'm revising my oil that I'm using, ford did make a MTF just for the cossie when it first came out, I was very surprised at just how small the clearances were on the rings when shown, we had a chat about best oil, they fit ATF but he said a lot use gear oil, will try both for some miles and see what I think.
Something new learned today.
Still going to be £500 though!!
tabetha
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Old Oct 14, 2010 | 10:40 PM
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keep us posted
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Old Oct 18, 2010 | 06:57 PM
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Got me box back today, all £581.67 of it!!
It was a bit on the worn side however, was chatting with a oil guy who was into cossies when they first came out and worked on development of them, the oe specced oil was similar to a type F ATF, which is far removed from a regular atf, but a detail change saw the use of early mercon atf, the most compatible oil now is CASTROL TQ Dex 3 ATF, all I can say is mine lasted on gear oil, but this can so I'm told, and shown by my worn bits cause issues with synchro's due to it's thickness, ie not letting the oil pass through nicely and giving bad changes from synchro point of view.
Must admit the only problem I had was with changing down into 3rd at anything other than medium speed, all others were perfect at all speeds, had done 200K though!!
Currently welding lugs on for hydraulic clutch, but there are defo enough points nearby so a metal bracket could be fabricated to facilitate this, just don't fancy spending ages getting things laser cut to make a weld-able together bracket, plus want engine in car this week.
I got all the old bits inc the knackered bearing, and the cut off bearing, this is done to free off the 5th gear so a puller can be used to draw it off, saving me £100 for a new 5th gear.
I was amazed at the parts list and that not a single gear itself needed replacing.
tabetha
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