ugently need help guys as were stuck on what to try next with my mates car , it starts fine first time when cold but when hot it wont start when left for 5 or 10 mins. if you stall it or stop it and turn it on within a few mins it fine!!

so far we know....

*it has fuel as we bypassed the relay wired the pump a swich...so its not a fuel problem
*the starter is turning the car over at the correct speed so we doubt its that
*its had a new coolant sensor too so its not that
*we changed the dizzy tonight for a spare so that rules that out

so any escort boys (or gals) know of any sensors or relays that it could be??

someone said it maybe the TPS so we will try that tomorrow



cheers in advance guys any ideas welcome!!
Dave

 

has it been set up? and have u tried dissconecting the cold start valve?

 

its all running standard mate,no chips etc, when its hot starting problem is sorted for sure its being setup properly mate!

i will try disconnecting the cold start tomorrow mate after the initial warm up (is that what you mean?) would that then illiminate/solve that sensor?


thanks again buddy

 

yh just disconect it full stop mate and see how it starts, these are always playing up. when i say set up mate it doesnt need to be modefied its the fuelling that needs setting up, if this is out then u will either be getting fuel too rich or too lean when trying to start ect.

 

ok buddy well we tryed that now and that didnt work, but my mate was told it could be because of the huge baily breather pot he has and was told to bung something under the metering unit! does that sound right to you??

im stuck on this one!



cheers guys

Dave

 

Right first of all,

Unplugging the cold start valve doesn't 'fig' any thing, it just covers a problem. If all your sensors were fine and the car was properly set up the cold start valve would do the job ford intended.

Second, do a search this has come up ALOT, look in my old posts, there is one there will a load of links (good ones) covering all the problems and fixes.

But for now:

Warm car up, then when warm disconnect the 2pin plug from the black box on the fuel distributor leave the car for 5mins or so and let us know if it starts then.

The car can be driven like this but don't give it any stick/boost.

Rob,

 

i know it has come up a lot mate and i have seen your posts, we have had a full set of samcos on it and there are no kinks in it nor is there any boost/vac leaks

its not the starter like most of peoples problem seem to be that is why i have started a new thread so i can see if anyone else has had this problem

the 2 pin wire on the dizzy, what does that do exactly? we have replaced the dizzy with anotherone before i started this thread, and have a clear cover on it so we can see it sparking everytime and the pump is wired to a switch so we know it isnt the pink relay problem ether

so any ideas are very welcome


especialy about this pipe that we have been told to bung under the metering unit?????





cheers, Dave

 

dave, its your right to post if u feel u need some help buddy and alot of ppl on here are extreemly helpful.

"bung something under the metering head"? there are 2 outlets on the bottom of the metering head mate, but im assuming its not the vent which goes to the ammal valve your on about but the breather that goes to the rocker?

 

yes mate someone has told my mate (owner of the car) that with the bailys tank on it wil do that and there is a breather pipe under the metering unit that must be blocked off!!?? but i dont get how that would help!??

i am really stuck, i think my buddy is ordering the best fuel pump in the shop today just in case the one he has is past it, but as i said to him it starts fine when cold and holds boost perfectly so why would the pump be bust?? well if we change that and it still dont work we will just get every sensor brand new and go from there



i dont know much about the mfi engine and setup as i built the efi for my fiesta so cheers jodyhoare i know your helpin your best with my usless rammbling and such

cheers guys,
Dave,

 

no probs mate i know these cars are tempermental at best lol and problems can be sometimes hard to trace. u would have to block off the breather outlet on the metering head if it is just venting to the atmosphere mate?

 

no its still all connected mate!! we will prob spend all day tomorrow on the bloody thing!! might be woeth changing the inlet manafold gasket just incase it that?

 

i wouldnt think it would be the inlet gasket buddy, if it was this then it would be a prob all the time not just on warm start

 

There is another post i made with several links to good mfi guides.... I will find it in a bit was just feeling lazy lol

The fuel distributor lives on the metering unit, the large lump under the air filter. At the back right there is a black rectangular box with a 2pin white connector. When the car is hot unplug this and see if it will restart.

test 2

with the air filter off get some one to crank the car whilst you push down (lightly) on the big flap under the air filter. Do it progressively a mate is turning the motor over... You should only need to press it down 1 mm or 2 before it starts.

Is there a dump valve? if there is block it off.

Don't mess about with the other stuff before you have tried the above, as this will give the most useful info regards to a diagnosis.

Rob,

 

Mate just take your time and be methodical, another good thing to do is a compression check.

I got so pissed off with mine i took every boost hose off, the breather system off, the intercooler off. Cleaned it all then put every thing back together in case there was an air leak any where.

Then i took every connector i could see off and cleaned it with connector cleaner.

Replaced my water temp sensor (located under the inlet manifold)

and now it starts (9 times out of 10 lol).

Let us know what happens

Rob,

 

lol @ 9 out of 10

yeah have check all the pipes mate and replaced coolant sensor too! it just baffles me (as i said im a fiesta man) there are a few point i have found else where regarding changing earthing straps but again wouldnt it do it when cold too?

well like i said a new fuel pump has been ordered (186quid) and if that dont help we will replace every sensor from ford

 

Mate i can tell you its not the fuel pump. and there is no point in replacing all the sensors! If it runs fine on boost and from cold he must know its not the pump?

Don't rule out a gammy starter, A slightly weak starter won't turn over as quickly as a good one, thefore the metering unit flap wont be pulled down enough possibly meaning the car is too lean to start.

9 out of 10.... i thought it was spot on lol stuck at the petrol station took the plugs out and i think the car is running slightly lean and my timing has been mess about with by some kind of neanderthal bell end lol

Seriously though spunking his money wont fix it. What happens when he has bought all the sensors (which aren't particularly cheap) and it still wont start due to an air leak?

Here are the links

https://passionford.com/forum/ford-e...or-people.html

Read them all! one is a bit of a fault finding guide and tells you how to test the sensors before buying every thing shiny he can see lol


Rob,

 

ok i think we may have found the problem, we found a fuel pipe that is drawing in air when the pump is primed and also when the pump is turned off it continues to hiss for a few seconds, i think that on a hot start it isnt supplying enough fuel pressure to the injectors!

does that sound about right??

ether way our next call is to change the fuel lines!, hope this solves it

cheers guys

 

Not especially. Fuel system is under enough pressure to piss fuel out of any appropriately sized hole.

Can i ask you what the point is in you posting shit up here?

So far i have wasted my time giving you decent advice and you have ignored all of it....... I told you what checks to make so we could give you a diagnosis.... have you, clearly not.

So best of luck mate,

Rob,

 

i have checked the things you have suggested everything has been off checked cleaned and put back on,i havent checked the contanuaty of the sensors as we just dont have a tester. you also answered yor own question, if i post i clearly havent solved the problem have i??

thanks for your advise so far but i think the problem is not the same as yours was.


cheer dave

 

IMO your idle mixture is too lean or rich, probably lean as it's not starting when hot, and i'm assuming opening the throttle doesnt help?

Turn your mixture screw 1/4 of a turn clockwise and see what happens, do that up to 1 complete turn, if it doesnt help the follow the same prcedure but anticlockwise from it's original position!!

 

as i said way back up the top im waiting for u to post a pic tho karlos :P

 

dont rule out the fuel accumulator if all other angles have been looked at

 

 

What happened when you pushed the metering unit flap down whilst cranking?

Did it do any thing when you unplugged the connector?

Rob,

 

I know the lad i recently bought my latest erst off had this same problem, after doing every test/check and adjustment he could think of, replacing coils, plugs, relays, leads, dizz cap etc etc (even ecu)... it turned out to be (an god knows i dont understand why) the immobiliser!!

 

not much mate it coughed to life after a while like it normally would but ran proper rough when it did!
and removing the dizzy connector did nothing mate!

and i dont think its the imobilizer as iirc its disconected!?


cheers Dave

 

i wouldnt be surprised if it was just the starter motor getting too hot.. done it on every escort ive owned..you checked that?..my current car was having the same bother not long back and all i did was adjust the mixture very slightly and adjust the ignition timing using the correct procedure..car runs sound now.(or as good as possible till i get it done by a pro)..i done this on the advice of Karlos G..so if i offer any advice it is do what he says before you try anything else..post up how you get on...
on a side note regarding the breather pipe from the bottom of the metering head,mine is blocked up..the last time it was set up they disconnected the amal valve cos it was fubar..the actuator hose just goes in a loop and connects back on itself...when i get a new amal valve is it just a case of plugging the wire in and the three pipes to it..from metering head and actuator and rocker cover?? or will i need to adjust other stuff to compensate? thanks

 

Did you ever fix this?mine seems to be doing the same,got it warmed up today after trying another accumalator and then turned it off for a few mins,it wouldn't start as usual,normally once it doesn't start you have to bump it and it will go,had a battery pack on it today as the battery is crap,difference today was with someone turning it over and me pushing and cleaning the metering flap with carb cleaner it would start 8/10,its idles perfect and boosts fine and start from cold first turn off the key,have had the starter issue on another rst but this was turning over fine with a battery pack but does need a new battery,the other thing is if a turned if off and start it staright away it seemed to start every time,at the moment its off the road but will be taking it to a tuner in the near futre but as every tuner is miles away I would like to have this issue sorted,also looked to day and the cold start injector is disconnected and the fuel pump also primes fine,any ideas? could this just need a setup?

 

Theres a valve on top of the fuel pump (pressure side). Get a new one and it will be fine again. Don't be fooled, you won't see it until you disconnect the fuel hose from the fuel pump.

Not quite sure if Ford sells these nowadays, but any Bosch service station should be able to get one for you.

 

any ideas on where to get one from and thanks for the reply mate

 

As mentioned above, try @Bosch

 

have u checked the thermostat pal as mine runs fine untill it gets to half temp on gauge then it missfires and cuts out and wont start for nothing untill it cools down.a good mate said check my thermostat as this will cause it.so took the thermostat out and checked it and put it in boiling hotwater and it didnt open so hope it will sort mine out and maybe yours lol i ll let u know tomorrow if it fixes mine cause u might have the same problem

 

The thermostat will NEVER cause the engine to misfire and cut out!

There's something wrong with your temperature sensor I bet

 

plugs it will have wrong ones in

 

is that last post a joke?

 

i had rst for ten years mate so i know my way round them + just scanned the top post saying wouldnt start when warm witch would be plugs or fans not kicking in

 

I wouldn't let you work on my jigsaw puzzle never mind my car FPMSL

 

funny that i wouldnt wana work on a vectra so il agree with you

 

old email address linked to my facebook login,but still have an astra van and cant fault it 12k init since febuary only a 1.3cdti nippy and 160 miles Ł20 can't moan

 

found the problem was the full distributor on mine breaking down when warm it wasnt the cap or the rotoraty arm as tried this first but once i put a full second hand distributor on its running sweet as a nut.hope this helps anyone with similer problems in the future