As title really, i've got hold of an st170 inlet setup, with injectors, etc.

Whats involved in fitting it to the 2.0 blacktop, if it can be done at all??!!

Obviously one problem is the variable inlet tract, what would i do with that??

any help would be great.

 

the variable inlet would be your only real issue, the actual mounting of the manifold wont be an issue as the 1.8/2.0 mount the same as the 170 (people use the inner inlet for TB conversions) but the main bulk of the power the 170 has is in the vvt system so unless your doing a full conversion it might not be worth doing? iirc the 170 is only actually 140bhp before the vvt kicks in and the majority of that 140 was in the head..

im sure there will be people more clued up than me that will help but have you not thought of using the inlet as a start for a TB conversion?

 

Ul have to fit aftermarket managment to run the variable tract, as im having to do....

Or u could fix the position of it anti-clockwise, which makes the runners longer

 

okay, cheers.

Will i see any sort of noticable difference from the standard inlet?

 

You wont see any difference unless you have an aftermarket ECU. With an aftermarket ECU you could see over 150 bhp.

 

The port on the ST170 is around 5mm bigger in height (all at the top) than the standard blacktop so unless you enlarge the port in the head there is a large step.

Richard Holdener's book has some RR power run curves for the manifold in both positions (extensively ported head, crower cams, 8.5:1). The long runner maxed at 150bhp, 7,250rpm, short runner 166bhp, 7,800rpm. The power & torque curves crossed at 5,400rpm, wonder why Ford switch it at 6,000rpm ?

Not sure if it will fit if you have a standard blacktop alternator. On the ST170 bracket its about 10mm lower.

Oh, and if you do boost the manifold, I understand that they die quite rapidly........

Martin

 

The ports on silver top are the same size but are about 5mm out on height. You can take inserts out of manifold which reduces it to about 2.5mm then you'll need to elongate the manifold holes to allow it to line up. I have a complete st170 inlet here and want to know if it will fit in mk6 escort without hitting the brake bar? It definately wont fit mk4 escort as I already tried that. Anyone know?

 

What inserts ?

Which manifold holes need elongating? The mounting bolt/stud locations are the same on silvertop/blacktop, as are the runner centrelines.

As to fitting in an Escort, why? The DSI isn't very reliable or robust. Far better manifolds available, or just use the inner with a fabricated plenum....

Martin

 

The st170 inlet has metal collets in the mounting holds. These are easily removed and drop the manifold about 2 to 2.5mm. Them the holes need to be elongated to make the rest of the drop possible. The manifold is far better than any escort or nondeo zetec manifold for flow and it has larger throttle body than the 2.0l mondeo item

 

As you've said, all the increased height of 5mm of the runner port is at the top. If you drop the manifold you end up with it at the bottom instead! What does that achieve in matching? It only moves the stepfrom the top to the bottom.

The inserts are there to prevent over stressing the manifold with the bolts/studs/nuts and fatigue, as with any composite manifold. How do you prevent that when they are removed.

The standard manifold (pre-2003) actually flows very well with mild porting, and although not necessary unless trying to exceed 180bhp, can be fitted with a larger TB easily.

Is your opinion of ST170 'flow' empirical, or do you have measurements? In the short runner position it is obviously better at high revs, but thats a resonance issue, not static flow effect.

Martin

 

well firstly I have just tried to offer up the st throttle body on my 2.0 ghia focus and although it will bolt in place its totally useless because the standard manifold only has a hole in it the same size as the std 2l throttle body. On a silver top the st170 inlet sits too high but the shape of the holes are the same. I will find my pic I took before when I can get to my own pc. I get removed collets before and then fitted washers then locktite on the bolts. It worked fine. I'm just guessing but I recon a 170 manifold will flow better than a 130 manifold considering they are both zetecs!

 

I also offered up the st170 manifold to my mk6 escort and it looks like it will fit just. The brake bar is going to be close but otherwise I cant see a problem. Just a little tip for anyone reading this topic. Use a standard focus 2l fuel rail on the st170 set up as it is a double ended rail and it fits perfectly on the st set up and allows a fuel return and can run an after market power boost valve

 

You've still not suggested what to do to match the head to the ST170 manifold. What your suggesting still leaves a step, just top and bottom instead of at the top. The proper way to do this is to blend in the port on the head. Thanks, but I don't need a picture as I've had quite a few heads and manifolds (including 4 different 2.0 Blacktops, WRC, Rover, FR) pass through my workshop, all fully recorded.

I think its common knowledge amongst those who have spent a bit of time playing with Blacktop engines that the ST170 TB does not fit a standard manifold. Apart from it not really being necessary,the obvious alternative is the FC/Steeda/CFM/PS 65mm one (NOT JR).

Why ? The main reason is simply to provide DSI (how are you going to operate that?). Actually measuring an improvement is a bit better than intuitive guessing.

Again, anyone who does their research knows the ST170 uses a non-return fuel rail, so obviously a standard one is a good idea with a more common management system. But why a 'Power Boost Valve' ? they only have any effect on a very early management system as any decent ECU senses and corrects injector pulses for variation in rail pressure. For 99% of applications,the standard Ford PCV is perfectly adequate. If you really want something else, a normal 1:1 regulator is fine.

Martin

 

Firstly the standard 2l black top throttle body has the same bore as the inlet manifold it bolts to so you cant go for a bigger bore throttle body as it will leave a step. The silver top inlet might be different bore size but I cant remember. The power boost valve is so you can have it set up properly to match any other mods. A guess yes that the st170 manifold flows better but i'm confident that it does. If it dont then thats no loss to me. The st170 manifold has the same port size and shape as the 1.8 and 2l silver top heads so no mods needed apart from the height. I dont know if the black top is different as I have not looked

 

Seems you've never heard of the term 'porting'. The removal of material to improve flow using a die grinder, dremel, etc. Many people have found it extremely easy to do that to plastic composite as well as aluminium manifolds/heads. So no problem with a 65mm billet TB. What would you have done if the ST170 TB did have the same bolt pattern, just leave a step?

Your confident a ST170 manifold flows better, huh. But you've not actually tested it or it seems, even read the few books reporting tests. Sounds like a bookies dream.

Rather than start a new thread with your NEW question, you decided to make an incomplete post in one 2 years old.

You then started discussing a 2.0 Focus Ghia (Blacktop), now your talking about a silvertop. As I said, I've had quite a few different engines, heads and manifolds through my workshop and I document them all for future reference. I'm reasonably confident I know their dimensions and porting that works. So since you know your right (using guesswork), please carry on, I wish you luck.

Martin

 

mate i dunno what your issue is but its as if you think im stupid or something.
the tube of the black top zetec inlet manifold is the size of the throttle body, it cannot be altered because there is no material to remove, it would just grind right through it!
the difference in size is 15mm iirc.
as for talking about different engines, i have a 2.0l black top focus, a 2.0l silvertop mk4 escort and a 1.8 silvertop escort mk6 and a spare 2.0l silvertop engine and two st170 setups including individual throttle bodies, so i have a few options lol.
anyways i need to know if a st170 inlet will fit a silvertop as i believe that it will inprove the bhp purely because it will allow a larger t/b and more air flow.

 

st170 inlet will fit pal

 

Brill. Can I ask how you know this? Have you Got one on yours

 

sorry lads it will bolt on head but there is 5mm difference in port heights and ya cant really slot holes that much on plastic manifold. If ya just bolt on inner half you'll c what i mean

 

as i have said before it is out but it can be made to fit, if you remove the metal inserts on the bolt holes the manifold drops about 2.5mm and then the rest of the difference can be made by elongating the port holes, i have done it before and they line up brill.
this is a pic of my old setup before the st170 inlet was elongated to drop the rest of the way, it is almost spot on when its dropped, maybe the tinyest of misshapes at the top but it certainly worked excellent without any port reshaping