Just been doing a spot of reading... I notice that although the 2.0 esp is a good 40 hp down on the ST it's only a second slower from 0 - 60.
Now I have read various articals that say although very strong the 6 speed getrag is a lazy box, which would suggest that the reason for the apprent lack of acceleration on the ST or should that be the better acceleration of the 2 ltr is down to the 5 speed unit?

With this in mind, is it a popular modification to fit the 2 ltr MTX box to the ST engine? If it is what sort of difference has it made if any? Is it a viable modification? I understand there are issues with the 6 speed using a dual mass flywheel, but I assume as you can fit the the 6 Speed to a 2 ltr block the reversal is also achievable by using a 2 ltr flywheel on the ST block?

Any comments appreciated

 

The 0-60 figure means nothing in the real world.

I have not driven and ST170 but imagine it is the same as the Puma and XR2i with VCT an dnormal engines. The VCT engines are designed to give good low down tourque and should be better were it matters, 30-50mph etc.

 

I don't really see the comparison to be honest mate... The puma has a 5 speed box that in essence an evolution of the XR box with slightly different ratio's, they have totally different engines and have very little in common with each other.

One of the primary and well documented critisims(sp?) of the ST is the slugishness. The 6 speed is a lazy box on the 170, it's more suited (in my opinion) to the higher power ZT conversions that actually have the power to pull the gearing. With this in mind, this is why I would have thought the closer gearing of the 5 speed box would suit the ST engine and power.

 

i got an st 170 and would agree a 5 speed box would be better unless your revs are right up there but i dont like to drive like that all the time so i also get lazy driver how sad am i

 

This is something I have considered doing, so glad to see someone else thinking along similar lines. Any closer to finding out?

 

Not yet mate, not had enough time... Still considering it though

 

I had a 1.8 zetec collection which had the same 5 speed as the 2.0 IIRC. Have driven my mates ST170 very hard on several occasions, and have to say I definetly preferred the box in my 1.8! The 170 box must be stronger though surely?

 

No mate the 2 ltr has the MTx, the 1800 has the Ib5, as i understand it both the MTX and the 6 Speed are strong boxes.

 

That is generally the case G, although I drove a 1.8 recently which had lift up reverse, that usually indicates an MTX g'box, unless it was retro-fitted.

MTX is said to be the strongest recent gearbox, as the RS one (IIRC) uses a modified MTX with Quaife internals? Isn't the 6spd a Getrag box?

 

yes the six speed is the getrag box

having both a st170 and a 2.0 esp i to would agree with what you have said . i think the st170 has been slighty wasted with the six speed box. with a 5 speed i think the car would have been alot better

 

Is it a particularly easy/hard conversion do we know?

 

You will need to source 2litre 5 speed spec - focus/mondeo parts.

gearbox
gear cables
gear lever/linkage unit
flywheel
clutch

As easy as that, unless you have yet to fabricate the parts onto the car if not a focus

 

Well I'm already runnig a 2.0 on MTX in my ESP, so in theory, is it just a case of transplanting a 2.0 Duratec lump?

 

if you mean transplanting an St170 engine into yours then you will need the loom and ecu to go with it. Plus it has a different bottom end so I dont know whether the MTx box will be a straight swap onto a duratec engine. If you can get an MTx flywheel onto the duratec box then you're good to go.

 

Not entirely acurate... The ST170 is in essence a 2 ltr Zetec with a VVT/VCT head, the blocks on the Zetec and ST are virtually the same, the bellhousing on the MTX and the Getrag are the same, hence why people use the ST Getrag for the ZT conversions...

In theory the ST engine will require the ST dualmass flywheel removing and replacing with the 2 ltr one. Then it's a case of what Mr Yeti said.

 

Hmmm, the search for an ST Engine begins...

 

I'll keep my eyes open for ya mate...

 

Cheers dude.

 

Don't forget the driveshafts are completely different until the outer CV joints.

I run a MT285 box (with solid flywheel & vauxhall clutch) on my mildly tuned 2.0, and certainly wouldn't go back to a MTX75. Even allowing for the extra gear, the spacing of the ratios is far more even. Also the change is far slicker without the double syncro, especially with some mods to the selector mechanism.

Martin

 

Right, I've found an ST170 Engine with everything... According to Yeti's post I should already have the above in my 2.0 shouldn't I? So just a case of getting the driveshafts too?

 

why not try the rs box on a 2.0 or an st? youve got the quaife diff, uprated driveshafts and ap clutch, they go on ebay for about 500 quid

 

the problem . is the speedo . irrc wont work with the mtx box. (rs and 2.0 is the same casing)

 

There is no problem running speedos with either the IB5 or MTX Focus gearbox. The calibration is in fact in the PCM which converts the Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS) signal to a serial signal on the OBD data highway. It also outputs a 'calibrated' pulse for legacy items such as cruise control and volume control on the radio.

The VSS sensor 'looks' at a plastic/metal wheel on the diff (which replaces the speedo worm gear in earlier cable speedo boxes) which has 26 teeth. so 26 pulses per driveshaft revolution.

The only mismatch is with an ST170 PCM/Gearbox. The outputs from the PCM are still the same, but the pulse rate from the gearbox is much higher. This is because the MT285 was never designed to drive a mechanical speedo. The VSS just looks at the crownwheel. So it outputs 89 pulses per rev of the driveshaft to the PCM.

So to use any other box with a ST170 PCM, or, to use a ST170 gearbox with an ECC-V Focus PCM (as I do) you either have to pay Ford to correct the PCM calibration or fit a frequency modifier. Ford can do the PCM calibration to correct for different wheel/tyre options; I don't know if they can do the major change needed for a gearbox swap.

I use a frequency modifier marketed for bikes, but also used by kitcar fraternity. Its called a Speedo Healer. It just goes between the VSS and the PCM and programmed with a pushbutton and a few switches. Unfortunately the Ford VSS is non-standard (according to the Speedo Healer manufacturer) so a couple of resistors are needed as well.

OK, its a self fit, but the unit is cheaper than even getting Ford to look at your car. Its also useful for minor recalibration for swapping wheels/tyres.

It's all written up as a How To on www.ffoc.co.uk.

Martin

 

Ive got a st170 engine with a 5-speed in my mk3 escort, its away getting managment the now, but when its bk al let ya know how it goes....

 

It's all written up as a How To on www.ffoc.co.uk.





As I said 26 pulses per drive shaft 360degrees

89 pulses per drive shaft revolution.

Pulse rate for speed depends on wheels/tyres.

 

NO!

Your diagram shows the blue wire has been changed to from blue to green.

My diagram shows the resistors between the Vehicle Speed Sensor VSS (geabox) signal and Grnd (0v) - 330 ohm pull down.

Then between the SH output to the Ford ECU and 12v - 100k ohm pull up.

 

Can I have a link please? I can't find the topic on ffoc.co.uk

 

After soldering resistors 10k / 100k and 330 still does not work....