simonc

My 1991 Sapphire has Air Con which was fitted when it was a few months old by Alpinair in Middlesex. Its not working & was going to get it regassed & check for leaks to see if its worth bothering with,if its too costly to repair i was going to remove it. On the slam panel it says R12 refrigerant on the Alpinair plate, now i thought this was an old type gas & R134a is used now, can i still get it gassed or is R12 not available or can i just have R134a put in ?

Cheers Simon.

banhambuilt

they just take the old gas old and fill up with the newer gas/oil.

takes about 10 mins to do

i have mine done every year at mot time

simonc

I was told by my local Air con place that if my system has anything but R134a they can't touch it

Simon.

Glenn_

iTrader: (1)

Yeh i always got told that the r12 is no good n every car now uses r134a i had an aftermarket air con system on my cossie n just cut all the old wiring n pipes n condenser out of my car. It didnt work any way so.

simonc

Anyone else know if i can get the new 134a gas put in instead or do i have to junk the air con

Simon.

andycos

When i first got my Sapphire 4x4 with factory air con, it had the old type r12 which wasnt working.
So i had it all changed to run R134 at great cost, and to be honest it wasnt really worth it
Although it delivers cool air, i wouldnt say its cold air like some other air con controlled cars ive been in.
So in short, no legit place will put R134 into a R12 system.
Cue someone else to say 'oh yes they will'

jason_nike

Mine still uses the old gas, luckily a mate of mine fixes fridges, freezers etc and has a spare bottle of the gas, so cossie is still nice and cool

simonc

Just seen this on ebay

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/R12-R134A-AIR-...QQcmdZViewItem

Simon.

RST_mark

I went on a air conditioning course a couple months back as we are now doing it where we work. The answer to your question unfortunately is no. You can get adaptors for the high pressure and low pressure posts to convert to R134a type but the R12 refridgerant will attack the rubber hoses and seals inside the system and cause all sorts of leaks.

You could try that kit on ebay, might do the job, just sharing what i've learnt

foreigneRS

i have worked for the worlds largest a/c compressor manufacturer for the last 11 years, so am quite qualified to talk about this

the r12 is no longer legally available in europe.

your system can be converted to r134a, but it may not be reliable. depending on the materials used in the hoses and shaft seal of the compressor, the leakage rate may be significant.

i have just bought an old scooby that had an r12 system and i have converted it. to do this, i removed all components and flushed them through with brake cleaner to remove the old mineral oil. all o-rings were changed, as the old nbr material can split. new pag oil was added to the compressor. i haven't changed over the service ports yet, but doesn't matter as i have access to all types of fitting.then it needs a very long vaccuum, before filling with r134a

an r12 system filled with r143a will not be quite as efficient as when it had r12

if you remove the compressor, condenser (at the front) and the hoses and flush them through with brake cleaner, and flush the evaporator (behind the bulkhead), you can then ask any service place to refill you with oil and r134a. how long it will last i can't say without changing o-rings

foreigneRS

the kit off ebay could be useful, but you need to know a little more about it. there is no way of removing the old refrigerant with it (illegal to vent to atmosphere, but what happens when you have a crash and the condenser is broken ), no way of removing old oil, and more importantly - no way of pulling a vaccuum to remove moisture and air before refilling with r134a

also no new o-rings

simonc

Sounds like a nightmare, am not that bothered about having air con on a Cossie if its going to cost a fortune, would you believe it that the last owner actually had the standard 4x4 intercooler converted to RS500 size outlet to throttle body as the car runs RS500 8inj setup, still uses 4x4 intercooler so aircon could stay ! might be aswell to rip the whole lot out but i will try one of those Ł60 kits off of ebay 1st as they are selling R12 gas kits & sealer !!!

Simon.

simonc

I've found a small metal screw cap that reveals a valve (same as tyre valve sort of size) its on a black canister which is bolted to the suspension turret up near the battery, its got some wiring to it & an in & out air con pipe, where the valve is there is a clear glass small panel so you can see inside the top of the canister. Is this the valve to use to put new gas in ?

Simon.

steventoon

I got mine regassed at Ford in Penzance last year.

foreigneRS

simonc yes, that is the service port on the high pressure side. be very careful

there will be another one somewhere else on a bigger pipe for the low pressure side

Moose 130

I converted my mustang using special fittings.

Used PAG 68 oil - i'm told it allows the use of R134 in a R12 system

works fine.

Did my dads Rolls too. - works fine.

dojj

iTrader: (3)

the glass panel is there to show that there is clear gas in there
the more milky it gets the moer water it has in the system and then you need to change stuff voer like the recyver/drier

we have our vans serviced every few weeks and the fridge guy tells us all sorts of stuff, obviously not as good as first hand experience from forgirnrs mind

foreigneRS

obviously not, as the sight glass is to check for liquid, not gas

it's just a visual check that there is enough refrigerant in the system - not enough and there will be gas bubbles visible in the liquid as it will not get sub cooled enough in the condenser. oil is carried with the refrigerant as well

dojj

iTrader: (3)

foreigneRS

what he said

NEEDFORSPEED

persevere pple will stil have r12 about somewhere and it gets colder easier than converting etc . . . if it doesnt leak!!