C max hot starting problem tdci
22-07-2013, 08:31 AM
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C max hot starting problem tdci
As title really it starts fine when cold but as soon as its upto temp it won't start no fault codes showing either its been to 4 different garages no one can see that there's a fault upto now it's had a brand new alty new starter and 3 new battery's and a new battery in the key the only time it will restart after not hot starting is when the car is left a few hours to cool its a 2.0 tdci too pulling my hair out with it now lol just wondering if anyone else has had similar problems?
18-10-2013, 12:19 PM
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As title really it starts fine when cold but as soon as its upto temp it won't start no fault codes showing either its been to 4 different garages no one can see that there's a fault upto now it's had a brand new alty new starter and 3 new battery's and a new battery in the key the only time it will restart after not hot starting is when the car is left a few hours to cool its a 2.0 tdci too pulling my hair out with it now lol just wondering if anyone else has had similar problems?
1st thing to change is the crank position sensor, £30 max from euro car parts, may be cheaper else where.
to change it take off the front right wheel and its just slightly behind and to the left of the crank pully.
Jason
20-10-2013, 05:09 PM
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27-10-2013, 08:10 PM
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The sensor is on the thermostat body and I unplugged it when hot, no change.
The sensor sends to ECU and ECU to dash...
It's running better now I've stripped and modified the pickup module in the tank.
Poor design on the volvo means it can suck air even when there is 1/4 tank left.
Update, looks like Ford use the same in tank pick up unit. if you are seeing bubbles in the fuel line and have 1/4 tank or less you have sediment in the fuel tank, blocking the only 3 mm hole that allows fuel into the fuel line...
The sensor sends to ECU and ECU to dash...
It's running better now I've stripped and modified the pickup module in the tank.
Poor design on the volvo means it can suck air even when there is 1/4 tank left.
Update, looks like Ford use the same in tank pick up unit. if you are seeing bubbles in the fuel line and have 1/4 tank or less you have sediment in the fuel tank, blocking the only 3 mm hole that allows fuel into the fuel line...
Last edited by jase1973; 28-10-2013 at 05:10 PM. Reason: update
28-10-2013, 05:08 PM
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Are you sure there is a bolt in temp sensor on the cylinder head?
29-10-2013, 12:54 PM
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Is it a Ford engine, same as what is in the mk3 Mondeo? If so yes, there is.
Cylinder Head Temperature Sensor Location and Removal Ford Mondeo TDCi 2.0 (2004) - YouTube
Cylinder Head Temperature Sensor Location and Removal Ford Mondeo TDCi 2.0 (2004) - YouTube
29-10-2013, 02:02 PM
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Ok, stripped the tank looking for a 1 way valve. (Thought there was somewhere on the line as i had tried to blow it through before... when trying to clear fuel line with compressed air.
Disconnected the line at the tank (line should have been empty as i had drained the tank.
Not a dribble, but no valve. Blew through the line again, squirt of fuel comes out... Blockage in fuel line.
Did actually have strange symptoms when trying to drain the fuel tank through the fuel line...
Started getting bubbles, lots. Thought i must be nearly empty. Kept going, got another 7 litres, had to keep repriming the hand pump due to air. Figured it was empty.
Dropped the tank off and removed the pickup unit. Still lots of fuel sloshing around in there.
Drained out another 7 litres.
Stripped the pickup unit. Found some sediment in there so must be more floating in the tank, ok i could have taken the tank off, cleaned it, flushed it and basically try to get every last floatie bit of gunk out.
Or plan B was to make it more tolerant to junk...
I drilled 6 extra holes to allow fuel into the cup faster, and put some stainless shwarf under the pickup pipe to minimise crap being sucked up, there is a proper filter at the other end anyway...
Reassembled, put 5 litres only in the tank, primed and started, no bubbles.
Bubble problem at least sorted...
Conclusion. pickup Unit is a poor design, any contaminants will block the minute hole that fills up the cup that the fuel pickup draws fuel up from. Then as fuel is drawn from the cup its not replenished fast enough to refill the cup, then it draws air even though there may be 14 + litres of fuel is sloshing round inside the tank...
Now back to my hot start problem, not quite fixed...
Disconnected the line at the tank (line should have been empty as i had drained the tank.
Not a dribble, but no valve. Blew through the line again, squirt of fuel comes out... Blockage in fuel line.
Did actually have strange symptoms when trying to drain the fuel tank through the fuel line...
Started getting bubbles, lots. Thought i must be nearly empty. Kept going, got another 7 litres, had to keep repriming the hand pump due to air. Figured it was empty.
Dropped the tank off and removed the pickup unit. Still lots of fuel sloshing around in there.
Drained out another 7 litres.
Stripped the pickup unit. Found some sediment in there so must be more floating in the tank, ok i could have taken the tank off, cleaned it, flushed it and basically try to get every last floatie bit of gunk out.
Or plan B was to make it more tolerant to junk...
I drilled 6 extra holes to allow fuel into the cup faster, and put some stainless shwarf under the pickup pipe to minimise crap being sucked up, there is a proper filter at the other end anyway...
Reassembled, put 5 litres only in the tank, primed and started, no bubbles.
Bubble problem at least sorted...
Conclusion. pickup Unit is a poor design, any contaminants will block the minute hole that fills up the cup that the fuel pickup draws fuel up from. Then as fuel is drawn from the cup its not replenished fast enough to refill the cup, then it draws air even though there may be 14 + litres of fuel is sloshing round inside the tank...
Now back to my hot start problem, not quite fixed...
31-10-2013, 10:49 AM
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Update
Had some more fiddle time,
Started having longer cold starts. bearing in mind I've just put a new battery on and cleaned the earths etc... not what I was expecting.
It's +8 degrees out so glow plugs shouldn't be needed
So assumed that the sensor that was causing my hot start problem had failed further and was really on it's way out.
Bearing in mind I already have new fuel filter and body, clean tank and good fuel line.
New cam pos sensor and new crank sensor fitted
Started unplugging things.
MAF sensor, no change
Air Temp sensor, No change
(now all plugged back in again)
So now running out of sensors
Then I unplugged the odd sensor that's on the side of the battery, with 2 tubes in the bottom of it.
Turned the key, good start. Best I've known.
switch off, plug back in, restart. (or not)
unplug good start.
switch off, plug back in, restart. (or not)
so I'm thinking what does this strange sensor check... took a photo and googled the number off it.
DPF sensor. my haynes manual doesn't list it, no mention of it...
Side note, I know my EGR has been blanked off.
Reading between the lines, I also know that the EGR is required for DPF regeneration.
So I'm making a reach here and assuming that it hasn't regenerated and is full of soot (as well as the sensor just being broke)
I'm getting no dash warning lights or codes to tell me there is a DPF problem.
I going to leave the sensor unplugged a few days and go for a drive and see if it starts when hot now.
Assuming it's fine (starts) I'm planning to Drill out the DPF
and put a resistor (unknown value as yet) to simulate the 0.35v to the ECU required to make it think it's got a little backpressure on the sensor...
Fingers crossed I'm getting to the end of this.
More updates to follow
Started having longer cold starts. bearing in mind I've just put a new battery on and cleaned the earths etc... not what I was expecting.
It's +8 degrees out so glow plugs shouldn't be needed
So assumed that the sensor that was causing my hot start problem had failed further and was really on it's way out.
Bearing in mind I already have new fuel filter and body, clean tank and good fuel line.
New cam pos sensor and new crank sensor fitted
Started unplugging things.
MAF sensor, no change
Air Temp sensor, No change
(now all plugged back in again)
So now running out of sensors
Then I unplugged the odd sensor that's on the side of the battery, with 2 tubes in the bottom of it.
Turned the key, good start. Best I've known.
switch off, plug back in, restart. (or not)
unplug good start.
switch off, plug back in, restart. (or not)
so I'm thinking what does this strange sensor check... took a photo and googled the number off it.
DPF sensor. my haynes manual doesn't list it, no mention of it...
Side note, I know my EGR has been blanked off.
Reading between the lines, I also know that the EGR is required for DPF regeneration.
So I'm making a reach here and assuming that it hasn't regenerated and is full of soot (as well as the sensor just being broke)
I'm getting no dash warning lights or codes to tell me there is a DPF problem.
I going to leave the sensor unplugged a few days and go for a drive and see if it starts when hot now.
Assuming it's fine (starts) I'm planning to Drill out the DPF
Fingers crossed I'm getting to the end of this.
More updates to follow
05-11-2013, 04:30 PM
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19-11-2013, 12:22 PM
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Turns out my ECU is knackered.
My hot start problem, mutated into just a start problem.
Then a, if it starts, it runs on 2 cylinders.
Checked everything and only injectors 4 and 2 fire, 1 and 3 do nothing.
Wiring loom ok, tested with a meter...
injectors ok, swapped them around and fault stayed on 1 and 3.
Only common factor ECU, Plugs and connections are ok. Plugged into computer via OBD, no codes stored...
My hot start problem, mutated into just a start problem.
Then a, if it starts, it runs on 2 cylinders.
Checked everything and only injectors 4 and 2 fire, 1 and 3 do nothing.
Wiring loom ok, tested with a meter...
injectors ok, swapped them around and fault stayed on 1 and 3.
Only common factor ECU, Plugs and connections are ok. Plugged into computer via OBD, no codes stored...
07-12-2013, 07:06 PM
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