SirKwietje

Hello men,
I am looking for info on escort cosworth 909 Motorsport shell, find there little back on internet, I know that these shells were intended to build for rally cars but still there are a number of ended up on the road. Is there anywhere a list kept of the 909 Motorsport shells where they are gone and their historic? Got one back found in the USA and apparently this is an important car in the rally sport.
link:
http://translate.google.be/translate.../cossie_us/all
info is welcome.I hope there is someone who can help me further with it.
Grtz. Tom

grcossie

Can`t see any 909 shell in that gatebil link

COCHYN

I think he means this one, but it has a sunroof. Motorsport shells didn't have sunroofs did they?

SirKwietje

sorry, wrong link

This will work: http://www.speedhunters.com/cossie

COCHYN

Ah well in that case, that's got a few discrepencies to be a full Works car. There's a lot of standard components on it like part of the dash and rear beam. Nice though

750hp escos

well i have a genuine ex works grp a car but like most the cars with the good history have their identity kept,like on a new shell or the like as my car come with just a dvla 2.0 3 door log book but was supposed to be a well known car and was converted from lhd to rhd etc..

Tbh i just wanted a good chassis and when i bought mine back in 05 it had some goodies on ,loads of carbon panes and grp a uprights etc etc so was ideal for my new circuit car..

Its now completely carbon ,every panel bar the roof and is wrc front and rear ,xmemebers rear cradle all stru mounts ,everything is now wrc but 2wd ..

When finished it will have 750+hp and with a sequential pneumatic shift gearbox and only weighing at most 1020kg it should be some circuit car..

What you have to also remember is you could buy a motorsport shell direct from ford and build your car to whatever spec with any parts you fancy,a works car is different in many ways and actually heavier ..


cheers danny

SirKwietje

Had these Motorsport shells a chasisnumber?
And maybe someone knows how many 909 shells there have been created?
As you can see from the link has this escos Motorsport number 960, but is there ever a list as in the monte version tracked ?

Paul_RS

iTrader: (4)

Which is what group a cars had.

Standard dash plastics with your choice of gauges and the rear beam looks very similar to the standard one, almost like an Bayjoo 6 degree item, but magnesium IIRC. Hard to tell exactly what's there from the photos though.

birel

hi

thath car was a streat car and in the usa sombody rebuld the car.

no special werry std. close ratios gearbox and and not much else.

never been abjuse ever( north america only for show.) make sure you look cool men.

for this car i think the owner ask 80000$ for a std car. not a motorsport shell not original.


later ferenc

birel

ed in 2003 on a fully trimmed Ford Motorsport shell. It was built by a Cosworth fan in the USA after coming across a treasure trove of Cosworth components, and was finished in the colors of 1992 Hadrian Centurian Rally winner J113 BPU due to inspiration from his son’s Tamiya radio control Cossie. The car is fully seam welded with a full roll cage, braces and correct Grp. A roof vents. The engine is conservatively tuned at approximately 500 flywheel horsepower and 410 lb/ft torque @ 26 psi boost on 100 octane no lead fuel, and the entire package has 150 miles on it including track sorting at Road America. This very special car is available in Milwaukee, Wisconsin for $70k. Contact us at mail@bringatrailer.com if you are interested.




The exterior features all the right rally components like Morette headlamp assemblies and Magnesium OZ tarmac wheels with Yokohama AO32 tires. The highly modified lightweight suspension includes fully adjustable rollbars, top-mount camber plates, and a GRP A steering rack. A single piece driveshaft, front diff girdle plate, Quaife “big tooth” trans and a ceramic full face clutch round out the package. The car weighs about 2700 lbs and power goes to all four wheels.



The exhaust starts with 3″ round to flat hockey stick side exhaust as in the Grp A cars. The modified YBT engine has a wire ringed head, custom cams and headwork, a GT 30 water-cooled ball bearing turbo, all ARP studs and bolts, Autronic SM4 management, and an Aluminum radiator with WRC style intercooler. The dyno sheet in the gallery below shows the 500hp and and was running 24 lbs of boost but the engine could be tweaked as far as 32 lbs of boost according to the seller, but he prefers to keep it at the current levels to preserve this very expensive engine.



A 20 gallon fuel cell and on-board Halon fire extinguisher system were added for safety, and Wilwood brakes with cockpit balance adjust and a custom rear brake bar slow things down in a hurry. Sun International is said to have legally imported about 20 road-going Escort Cosworths. One true Motorsport car was running Northa American rally events when new but hasn’t been seen in some time. This is one of very few competition-spec Escort Cosworths in the USA, if not the only.



In just one of many personal notes about the build, the seller tells us that:

“Most rally cars have a potential problem in that when the standard fixed (front) strut top is used and the car is set with proper camber, they usually use a heim joint lower arm and crank it all the way out to get the camber they need. Result is that they can spit the front driveshafts out when the wheels are cranked hard. I used an offset inner bushing and fixed end on the lower arm and put the camber in at the top of the strut and this is the answer although a lot of custom parts have to be built. I think touring cars did this, works great.”

Also according to the seller, the car is sold with a bill of sale and customs documents for the parts. This is a motorsport car intended for racing, it has a motorsport LHD ID tag. These shells do not have any other marking and do not have a VIN number. It is not officially legal for use on the street.

Check out the seller’s additional photos of the build as well as the dyno chart in the Flickr album slide-show below.




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76 comments

Please observe Bring a Trailer's commenting rules.

StephenAcworth
June 8, 2011 at 5:12 am 7 or Flag as not constructive
OMG this is too much for a wednesday morning!

TSK
June 8, 2011 at 5:16 am 10 or Flag as not constructive
Someone’s dream car. A very specific, very rare someone…

DonS
June 8, 2011 at 5:19 am 1 or Flag as not constructive
Good friggen morning to you screams this Cossie! I’m not sure where I’d drive it, but I know I’d be fast. Anyone need some eyes on this beast, I’m an hour away in Madison, WI.

Bert Kelley
June 8, 2011 at 5:31 am 6 or Flag as not constructive
A wolf in wolf’s clothing!

bonestock94
June 8, 2011 at 5:50 am 0 or Flag as not constructive
Uhhhhh, holy crap!!!

LJD
June 8, 2011 at 5:51 am 0 or Flag as not constructive
Wow, wow, wow. Growing up in South Africa, I loved watching rallying events all the time. Sarel Van der Merwe drove the old RS Escorts in the 70s and 80s and started my love affair with rally cars. Next to a works Audi Quatro this is my absolute dream car. Now just to find the $70k lying around and I will be all set.

lgb240
June 8, 2011 at 5:52 am 3 or Flag as not constructive
No way you could build this for $70k … a fun and different track toy. Nice work.

Axel Caravias
June 8, 2011 at 6:05 am 0 or Flag as not constructive
“Conservatively at 500hp”….. I Love BaT!

This is like a racing kart, it should be a blast to drive. Not sure if its useful at all. But nice car

Axel Caravias

Serj
June 8, 2011 at 6:08 am 1 or Flag as not constructive
I would like to echo the sentiments of some of the other commenters in saying: WOW. There are few words that get my automotive juices flowing like ‘Cosworth’, and aside from a mk. II twin-cam Escort, this is about as good as it gets. This guy clearly spared absolutely no expense to create an authentic Cossie, and it shows. I dream of finding $70k and doing my best Sainz interpretation all day long. Serious, serious respect to the seller for creating such a fantastic Cosworth, and in America no less.

Geoffrey Isabelle
June 8, 2011 at 6:20 am 6 or Flag as not constructive
Stunning car – but what to do with it? Track day toy? It’s almost too nice to go rallying with, I’d be afraid of scratching it! Maybe slap a dealer plate on it and terrorize local tuners…. hmmmm….

RDH
June 8, 2011 at 6:28 am 8 or Flag as not constructive
This is baddass. The rolling equivalent of a cocked pistol.

Ron Southan
June 8, 2011 at 6:30 am 0 or Flag as not constructive
Damn nice bit of work there. Kudos to the builder(s).

Patrick D.
June 8, 2011 at 6:44 am 0 or Flag as not constructive
Holy Moly! BaT got me right between the eyes this morning.

This is my top One, favorite car of all times, all categories, everything and anything. It even has the right wheels.

I know exactly where I’d drive it: EVERYWHERE. I’ll go mad from the noise and harshness, but I don’t care. My back will give out right before, anyway (or maybe the cops will pull my driver’s license?).

I’d prefer it with a little less blue swirls and stick with the 1993-1994 works livery, but this is no problem AT ALL as is.

The only thing I’d do: I’d swap the Cam cover for the correct blue one.

andy
June 8, 2011 at 7:05 am 5 or Flag as not constructive
Help me out. I’m as much a car guy as well, any guy, I think, but why? I can see the owner/builder having fun building it, but why would anyone buy it? It’s a backyard creation with a fakey paintjob. I’m not trying to rain on anyone’s parade, but honestly curious what you’d do with it once you spent 70 large ones. No history, not even an interesting donor shell, just a collection of parts in this one.

Notoboy
June 8, 2011 at 7:08 am 2 or Flag as not constructive
I am in love!!! This thing is totally awesome!!!

Why after spending all this time and money would the seller dump it for what looks like less than a third (or less) of the build cost??? Almost a shame!

Would love to own this thing and figure out a way to drive it on the street

Larry
June 8, 2011 at 7:11 am 6 or Flag as not constructive
What we are looking at here, gentlemen, is a labor of love, a work of art, and an expression of passion.

I am simply blown away by this.

jh
June 8, 2011 at 7:18 am 0 or Flag as not constructive
WOW…

tomw
June 8, 2011 at 7:27 am 2 or Flag as not constructive
Very nicely done but now what?

TOMMY B
June 8, 2011 at 7:41 am 2 or Flag as not constructive
OMG…. 500 HP !!! I love this car…. I think this is the Coolest & Best car posted on Bringatrailer in 10 Weeks…

dmr65
June 8, 2011 at 7:54 am 0 or Flag as not constructive
Fantastic car! But as some other people have said, “What do you do with it?” You’ll need deep pockets just
for the entrance fee. And at 32psi boost you’d most
likely have to rebuild the engine after driving in anger
anywhere. But, then again, there’s a butt for every seat.

RN
June 8, 2011 at 8:01 am 1 or Flag as not constructive
Absolutely love the paint scheme.

Dario
June 8, 2011 at 8:50 am 0 or Flag as not constructive
I would be afraid to drive something like that.

Caljags
June 8, 2011 at 9:00 am 1 or Flag as not constructive
For those interested in engine longevity, BurtonPower has a series of reccs on building the YBT engine.

http://www.burtonpower.com/tuning-gu...ing-guide.html

john fongers
June 8, 2011 at 9:04 am 2 or Flag as not constructive
In Europeland there IS a great potential for such cars.
With this, he can become a memeber of the ‘Slowly Sideways’ Movement , a movement that keeps old rally cars alive, either CLass 1 replica’s or the real deal stuff.
And you can enter rallies, either classic or drive with the big boys.
Class 1 replica’s are appreciated, coz an Ex-Sainz Escort went for half a million and not every one has these means.
Apart from that, how many real Mk1 Escort RS’s do you think survived? Or Fiat 131 Abarth Group 4′s ?
Or BDA’s or Twin Cams?
So making replica is appreciated today.
And this is a class ONE replica, certainly worth every penny.

I’d put it on rallycarsforsale

Peter
June 8, 2011 at 9:12 am 1 or Flag as not constructive
John Fongers has it right. Export to Europe where it will be appreciated and run hard.

I’m not a suspension expert but I can’t imagine it’s a great track car — even for tarmac special stages wouldn’t a rally-tuned suspension need to have a fair amount of travel?

Oddly I like this one more than the Rothmans 911s a few months back. Probably b/c of the Escort’s plebeian origins.

Alan Lapp
June 8, 2011 at 9:20 am 5 or Flag as not constructive
@Andy — what are *all* cars but a collection of parts?

This car happens to be a collection of expensive, high-spec parts, well-assembled by professionals, and cosmetically treated to represent the era of racing that the body would have competed in. I don’t see a downside.

mr_goodbar
June 8, 2011 at 9:30 am 0 or Flag as not constructive
Easily one of the best BaT finds of the year.

Ed L
June 8, 2011 at 9:52 am 0 or Flag as not constructive
Looks like an absolutely first class build. But as other have asked, it’s not at all clear what you do with this. It’s too young for most historic/vintage rally series, even if you’re prepared to treat it like the competition weapon it aspires to be. 100 octane fuel pretty much rules out regular street use, even setting aside all livability issues. So that leaves just current rally competition, assuming it would be legal for that.

All dressed up and nowhere to go.

Jay in Nanaimo
June 8, 2011 at 9:54 am 7 or Flag as not constructive
Want to drive on the street in North America ?

Just buy a beater Escort with regular papers and swap the VIN and dash tag.

Just kidding, yeah that’s it … kidding …

Patrick D.
June 8, 2011 at 10:16 am 0 or Flag as not constructive
@ Jay:

Yeah, that’s right just kidding, of course….

Where there is a will, there is a way!

Gregger
June 8, 2011 at 10:18 am 1 or Flag as not constructive
If I had that kind of scarole I would buy this in the pucker time of a flys butt. I would autocross it, run time attack, the Fall Weatherly, heck a little set up changing and I would run pikes peak. Skinny tires and snowy winter roads here I come. This car should come with a mandatory 3 day school with Tim O’Neil.

Dutch 1960
June 8, 2011 at 10:23 am 3 or Flag as not constructive
Sort of like meeting Angelina Jolie’s second cousin and body double. What exactly do you say, beyond the obvious? The small talk can get a bit awkward. But you will remember the encounter, in a good sort of way.

Soren
June 8, 2011 at 10:47 am 0 or Flag as not constructive
Carl Merrill used to run one of these in SCCA ProRally and ran it at Pike’s Peak before he died in 1998. His Crew Chief, WeeGee Smith bought the car and invited other’s to drive it including Stig Blomqvist’s return to US Rally at the Maine Forest rally in 1999, where he and the Carl’s Cosworth Escort handily beat the Sprongl brothers in their Group B Audi.

Awesome car.

Bob from the 'Burgh
June 8, 2011 at 12:02 pm 2 or Flag as not constructive
Absolutely bonkers. Must have… I wonder what a kidney is going for nowadays…

T Roca
June 8, 2011 at 12:10 pm 6 or Flag as not constructive
Thanks for the kind comments, this was a truly enjoyable and educational experience. FWIW, the red top engine is correct for early cars, certainly through ’93 and the Hadian centurion was run in ’92. Plenty wonderful footage of J113 BPU at speed and in the pits on Duke’s “The Escort Cosworth Story”, fascinating historical video. Blue and green tops didn’t come in until later when other European countries forced unleaded fuel and political correctness (there goes the wing) upon the rally community. 100 no lead was used during testing so as to not foul the wide band sensors monitoring A/F ratios. These Escorts make amazing track cars, the Escort was very much the best hard surface car of it’s day because of it’s RS500 touring car heritage. They are easily as fast as a GT1 car and yes, suspension (springs/shocks/travel) would be changed for rallying or off road surface, and that was often done. Wee Gee was kind enough to supply the impossible to find factory roof vents on this car.

Chris H.
June 8, 2011 at 12:11 pm 4 or Flag as not constructive
I would love to hit the carpool lane at my son’s school with this after a hard morning run. I can just imagine it snarling and spitting as I skid to a stop, and all of the moms spilling coffee inside their SUV’s.

Patrick D.
June 8, 2011 at 12:24 pm 1 or Flag as not constructive
I can’t help it. I just stare at the picture and I get all tingly inside looking at the hood scoop, the half-blanked-off Morettes and the OZ wheels.

I must have gone off the deep end…

I can still hear Carl Merrill’s Cossie going around the Hyppodrome in Quebec City, chasing the Sprongl’s around. I can also distinctly remember the exact same scene on Highway 20 going to the Hyppodrome, at oh-hum speed. Naughty boys! But awesome memories.

johnny
June 8, 2011 at 12:26 pm 4 or Flag as not constructive
I just had a cargasm.

Varjak
June 8, 2011 at 12:34 pm 1 or Flag as not constructive
I find myself somewhere b/t Geoffrey Isabelle and Andy. Phenomenal build; but hard to know what to do with it. Display it? Race it with some rally club (and risk damaging it)? Drive it surreptitiously on public roads?

Great car; but only if you already have everything else you want.

@Peter, and unlike the Rothmans replica, this is built on a full competition car; not a ‘regular’ 911.

Ben S.
June 8, 2011 at 12:41 pm 0 or Flag as not constructive
Simply fantastic!

In my opinion a bargain price for this build and I agree that well executed reproductions deserve a rightful place. If you have the skill, and you’d better, take it rallying in the EU where it belongs.

Group B machinery is getting gobbled up on the collector market, and there was not by definition that much made, so it is good to see that the Group A machines are getting more attention too.

Another great drive. Kudos to the builder and what will undoubtedly be a happy buyer! Sadly not me though…

Kristian
June 8, 2011 at 1:48 pm 0 or Flag as not constructive
Wow! If only I had the beans for a rally car… This would be awesome for tarmac rallies like Targa Newfoundland or Targa BC.

mike
June 8, 2011 at 2:03 pm 0 or Flag as not constructive
nice winter car ….really a nice build.

JWP
June 8, 2011 at 2:12 pm 1 or Flag as not constructive
What would you DO with it? C’mon people! You’d wash and wax it, carefully trailer it to the track, and then thrash the living daylights out of it!

Joe in FL
June 8, 2011 at 2:29 pm 0 or Flag as not constructive
Not to get too far off the point, but how hard is it to modify a road-going FWD 5-speed US-market ’92-94 Escort into a smart-handling & zippy GTI-like Escort that would look at home in Europe markets? 2.3L turbo swaps, or are we just better off getting a GTI or similar-era Merkur XR4Ti?

Arno
June 8, 2011 at 3:17 pm 0 or Flag as not constructive
Way cool (Finnish birth thing coming through again). As for what to do with it, set it up with tarmac settings and use it for auto-x or track days. Imagine powersliding all the corners at your local (insert marque club name here) track day. All the fun without the gravel damage.

Mark E
June 8, 2011 at 4:53 pm 0 or Flag as not constructive
Sorry, for this price I’d rather buy the previously listed Lancia Stratos kit, finish it the way I want and (drum roll please) drive it legaly on the streets!!

Kevin
June 8, 2011 at 5:58 pm 0 or Flag as not constructive
“due to inspiration from his son’s Tamiya radio control Cossie”
Wait, what?

RhinoMan
June 8, 2011 at 6:05 pm 1 or Flag as not constructive
This car is amazing. The attention to detail is unbelievable. I rode around Road America during the testing and it is very quick, Enough that I did not think I could get the seat belts tight enough.

Ed L
June 8, 2011 at 9:34 pm 0 or Flag as not constructive
@ Arno: this being AWD, I kinda imagine not powersliding much on a race track. And few circuits have a hairpin tight enough to need the handbrake to slide the rear around.

My “problem” with this is that I wouldn’t want to have to only use it on infrequent track days. There aren’t that many of them, even here in SoCal, and I don’t think I’d be able to keep my hands off it that long. But because it needs 100 octane, you can’t really use it on weekend road events, on sort of the roads it was originally designed for. So maybe it’s just me, but I’d find its practical limitations pretty frustrating if I actually owned it. Which, of course, I’d absolutely love to do…

Moustachio
June 8, 2011 at 11:03 pm 2 or Flag as not constructive
@ Ed L: AWD doesn’t matter, you must not have seen these hoon about growing up. This thing will go sideways everytime you ask it to, and sometimes even if you don’t.

The purpose of this car is immediate to those who grew up with these cars, and lost on those who didn’t. It’s a legend we never got here in the states, so even a stock one you can’t title gives some of us goosebumps. A rally spec cosworth version all sorted out like this gives me far more then goosebumps!

Believe me, if I were in the market for a track toy…. screw Arial’s, track-only Porsche’s, Catterhams. THIS is the real deal!

Eric A
June 9, 2011 at 12:12 am 1 or Flag as not constructive
I should have never sold my dot/EPA approval Cossie. It was a really fun car to drive.

Alan Lapp
June 9, 2011 at 9:12 am 0 or Flag as not constructive
@ Ed L — You could dial down the boost until it ran safely on 96 octane…. but where would the fun be in that?

@ Moustachio — I’ve always been bitter that here in the USA we got stuck with NASCAR instead of WRC on broadcast TV. Rally is infinitely more interesting to watch, but harder to cover. NASCAR is a broadcaster’s wet dream – it’s essentially a stadium sport (just like gladiators) that requires only 4 cameras to cover the driving flag to flag, never mind the extraordinary platform for advertising. Also, don’t knock a Catterham — they are street legal and can be daily driven on weekdays while terrorizing Corvettes at the track on weekends.

Ed L
June 9, 2011 at 9:30 am 0 or Flag as not constructive
@ Moustachio: many thanks for the history lesson, but I’ve been following rally for about 40 years now–from well before AWD rally cars even existed. And I’m afraid you’re dead wrong–AWD matters a great deal to rally driving technique.

In any case, driving technique on a rally stage isn’t the same as a race circuit, which is what Arno was speaking of. And there are some very good reasons why there have been very few AWD track cars. But if you’ve ever watched AWD cars on track, their principal advantage is that they’re rarely scrubbing off speed by drifting. And even on a tarmac rally stage, which is what this appears to be set up for, you won’t see a well-driven AWD car get sideways very much–that’s why gravel was invented…

To me this is less interesting as a track day toy than as an event car. So, as I said, if I owned a car like this, I’d want to use it on open roads, as it was originally intended, not on a closed racing circuit. But the 100 octane requirement makes the logistics of a multi-day road event–or any serious street use–tough.

JWP
June 9, 2011 at 9:56 am 0 or Flag as not constructive
@Arno–I’m with you. Surely with the right tires on it (maybe cheapo all-season ones?) you could travel sideways on asphalt with no problem?

Sorry, I mean to say tarmac. TARMAC.

Patrick D.
June 9, 2011 at 10:25 am 1 or Flag as not constructive
@ Ed L.:

The reason you do not see more AWD cars on circuit races if mainly because they aren’t allowed to. Most sanctionning bodies have ruled AWD out of the mix (F1, ALMS, SuperTouring, most GT series). I happen to crew in a class where AWD vehicles are allowed, and we have a heck of a time dealing with Subaru STIs, even on dry pavement.

In the wet? Forget it.

Driving technique is indeed different, but the inherent early flaws of AWD (mainly oversteer) have been solved. That still leaves AWD with higher drivetrain losses, and somewhat heavier weight, all of which can be alleviated with money, slightly more hp or a ballsier driver.

Arno
June 9, 2011 at 12:57 pm 1 or Flag as not constructive
One last comment before we get back to the usual debates about stance, Miatas, black plates and Momo Prototipos. I seem to recall that Audi did quite well in Trans Am using a quattro racecar with Hans Stuck, until the regulations changed. Also, watch any of the tarmac specialists in the awd rally cars, and they get plenty of rear rotation around corners, especially in the killer B days. Didn’t the awd rally cars have adjustable bias between the front and rear diffs, allowing for different setups for tarmac and gravel?

Moustachio
June 9, 2011 at 1:07 pm 0 or Flag as not constructive
@ Ed L: No need to get grumpy, we’re all car enthusiasts here! I was merely making a comment in good fun. In your 40 years of watching rallye, I’m sure if cars from this era didn’t strike your fancy, there is surely a car, or a few, from an era that you couldn’t put a price on and would want to have in your collection regardless of cost if you had the money. This just happens to be one of those cars for me — so regardless of if you can’t drive it on the street, I’d want it, because it’s a dream car that hung as a poster on a wall as a boyhood dream. I’m sure you can understand that at least?

And it seems you value track times over fun a bit much. Some of the most fun I’ve ever had on a course happens to be in the slowest and least efficient manner possible! -grins-

It also depends on what you consider a “Track car”, because there are plenty of AWD Track cars. Ever watch any of the Time Attack Series? Like Patrick D mentioned, all the negatives can be alleviated with money, hp, and balls — go look up Gobstopper on youtube, or the Cyber EVO time attack car. Whole lot of power, and a whole lot of rotation on tarmac :P

john
June 9, 2011 at 1:31 pm 1 or Flag as not constructive
i’m confused by all the “what to do with it?” comments…rally it in Rally America open class, Mt. Washington hillclimb, Pikes Peak…anything else is an insult to this beast (and in memory of Carl Merrill)

Tom Meacham
June 9, 2011 at 2:38 pm 0 or Flag as not constructive
As the owner of both a Caterham (2007, Series 3, 250 hp) and an Escort RS Cosworth 4X4 (1995, 378 hp Sun International/Eggenberger Motor Sport)), I can attest to the facts that both can be everyday drivers on 91-octane, and that they are perhaps the best division of labor between a fun summertime car and a fun wintertime car that one could imagine.

As far as converting a US-market ’92-’94 Ford Escort to Cossie specs — there are body parts available in UK to do a reasonable visual facsimile, but the drivetrain is the obstacle. In addition to AWD, the Cossie engine is mounted longitudinally. The Ford Escort engine is transverse. So any US-market Escort would have to overcome a substantial hurdle to become an Escort Cosworth replica, mechanically.

Varjak
June 9, 2011 at 2:40 pm 0 or Flag as not constructive
Patrick D., I think the principal characteristic of AWD cars is UNDERSTEER, not oversteer. Of course, you could set it up to oversteer if you want; but that’s not what I’ve seen on WRC on HD Discovery Theater.

But certainly, a pro could drift an AWD rally car; but I don’t think that would be the strategy in competition.

Ed L
June 9, 2011 at 9:10 pm 1 or Flag as not constructive
@ Moustachio: either you’re not actually reading my posts or I’m simply not explaining well enough. I love this car; I’ve seen very few top-line rally cars I didn’t like, and the era of this car works just fine for me. So I’m not at all sure what it is you think I don’t get about this car.

You also seem to think I prefer track use over road fun, when in fact I’ve said exactly the opposite. I don’t primarily want a car I can only use on the occasional track day; especially with a car like this one I’d want to run Mulholland and the canyons, as I do with the rally homologation special I already own. And I’d want to use it on weekend road touring events.

But there’s simply no way to make that work with this car. Alan Lapp suggested I could turn down the boost and run on 96 octane, clearly not realizing that in California, the best pump gas we have is a pathetic 91. And yes, I could drive only a couple miles and have my choice of race fuels. But that doesn’t work on a weekend road event, where you’re at the mercy of some gas station in the boonies. So, I understand this car perfectly well, and I think it’s absolutely fantastic. But, personally, I find the car’s spec too limiting to use it as I’d really want to.

And Varjak has it exactly right; you can rotate an AWD rally car on tarmac as well as gravel, And the pros regularly do, on the handbrake to bring the rear around on hairpins. But not in most corners; sideways isn’t the fast way on tarmac, and the cars aren’t set up for that. So Arno’s right that AWD rally cars do indeed set the diffs differently for tarmac and gravel. But that’s mostly to loosen up the rear for gravel, to counteract what Varjak perfectly describes as AWD’s natural tendency to understeer.

Varjak
June 10, 2011 at 12:12 am 1 or Flag as not constructive
Do Ed L., are you going to share with us what your rally homologation special is?

Ed L
June 10, 2011 at 1:00 am 2 or Flag as not constructive
Fulvia 1.6HF “fanalone”. Old school.

Patrick D.
June 10, 2011 at 5:48 am 0 or Flag as not constructive
@ Varjak:

Errr, yes of course, you are totally right. UNDERsteer.

Stupid keyboard dyslexia (or is that just regular dyslexia?)

Larry
June 10, 2011 at 6:54 am 0 or Flag as not constructive
Ed, something like this?

http://www.hemmings.com/hsx/stories/..._feature1.html

T Roca
June 10, 2011 at 8:35 am 0 or Flag as not constructive
Hi guys, just thought I’d give a comment on this car’s track manners. I don’t drive it at 10/10ths because I consider it irreplaceable. But even at 8/10ths it is very fast through the corners and it’s funny to watch a large hp Mustang behind me when we go into the corner and I’m eight lengths ahead when we come out. The car seems to be pretty neutral as currently set up and rotation seems to occur right at the drivers seat. I brake hard into a corner and almost start reapplying power as soon as I’m in, by 1/2 way through I’m adding alot of power and can pretty much steer the car wherever I want and as I am well on it I can feel and see the front end of the car pull the rest of the car where I steer it allowing pretty high corner exit speeds. There really is no understeer. When I first took the car out for it’s test runs and sorting I had an instructor ride with me (new car, new track for me not RA) as I just wanted an extra pair of eyes to watch traffic and the track as I was also paying attention to gauges and engine stuff, etc.. He went nuts as I was going around the track telling me that I couldn’t take that line and kept yelling we were going to end up on the grass (never did). 4WD IS different but can be fun and pretty amazing when you realize that you can pick a different line or save your butt with power if you get it a bit wrong. I’m sure this car can bite (they all can) but it’s a very easy car to drive fast. These cars have a constant F/R split of something like 35/65 with a viscous center diff. I also drive a modified NSX at track days and as compared to the Cossie 4WD the NSX isn’t nearly as sure footed feeling, although it’s still pretty decent for a RWD car. I have never felt that razor edge between understeer and the rear getting light in the Cossie.

Ed L
June 10, 2011 at 9:08 am 0 or Flag as not constructive
@ T Roca: understeer isn’t always a terrible thing, by any means; it doesn’t necessarily mean that the car won’t turn, or that the front end won’t bite. But the track behavior you’re describing is classic AWD understeer. That’s the reason it feels so stable and confidence-inspiring in the corners, and that’s the reason you can run those instructor-scaring lines without having it end up backwards in the weeds. Frankly, at 8/10ths (and I wouldn’t want to go beyond that either), you’re still so far within the car’s capabilities that the overall grip level tends to mask its behavior at the limit. I have no absolutely doubt the car is a real blast to drive.

@ Larry: many of the “facts” in that article are pure nonsense, and the interior and dozens of other details have been put back to correct original/period in the four years since it changed hands. But, yes, that’s it.

Varjak
June 10, 2011 at 2:46 pm 0 or Flag as not constructive
@Ed L., I figured it was a classic Lancia. A Fanalone no less. Awesome.

andy
June 10, 2011 at 4:06 pm 1 or Flag as not constructive
@EdL

oh, a fanalone, figures. My all time most lusted-after car. Will you adopt me and gracefully go dotty so I can have it?

Ed L
June 10, 2011 at 6:53 pm 1 or Flag as not constructive
@ andy: I’m afraid the previous owner, profiled in that article, has first refusal. But I believe he’s going to have a long wait. In the meantime, you can drive the car virtually; it was photographed and digitized for Dirt 3.

Larry
June 10, 2011 at 7:44 pm 0 or Flag as not constructive
Any current pics you can post, Ed? What changes did you make since the article?

Ed L
June 10, 2011 at 9:15 pm 0 or Flag as not constructive
No photos I can link you to, I’m afraid. Anyway, the interior has been returned to early rally spec, and we corrected dozens of other details, inside and out. But I don’t really want to hijack the thread.

Varjak
June 11, 2011 at 8:11 pm 0 or Flag as not constructive
Ed, you bought it from the owner featured in the Hemmings story?

Watching these things run is great. Saw a whole passel of various Fulvia HF’s (only a few Fanalones) go at it at Pocono awhile back. Phenomenal. Have some great pix from the Elba Historica also, but they’re from the pre-digital photo era.

MacBits
June 20, 2011 at 9:58 pm 0 or Flag as not constructive
This is a nice machine, like the Sprongl’s & Merrill’s – which I saw at Voyageur the event before his heart attack. A local Toronto rally pal owns a ‘new’ red, stock, street Cossie from the place in BC that made them from new shells – loverly. I work with Can-jam Motorsports who do Cdn Rally & GT1/2, Super-Touring & Endurance Series Race STi’s. The only way to race WRX’s is with huge power to overcome the big weight (incl LOTS of fuel) & poor weight distribution. The Krikorian ‘Versace’ cars are very successful in Cda due to low car counts forcing generous rules. Our fastest GT1 car & driver just did 1min 21.3 at Mosport, very likely the fastest Circuit Subie in Nth America? I’ve worked 4 Targa Newfoundlands, where Cossies have competed – it would be the best place to enjoy it without Stage Rally Wear & Tear. Lapping & Time Attacks, which I organize for the Canadian Sport Compact Series, would also be excellent fun – and ‘inexpensive’. This car is way too nice to go on gravel.

Raymond
August 22, 2011 at 8:30 pm 0 or Flag as not constructive
I saw Merrills car stored in a barn in Maine about 1.5 years ago… Car was being well cared for by an old friend of the Merrill family and I am sure will be brought out years from now. I soooo wanted to ask to take it for a spin! I remember compeating against/with them back in the day at Mt Washington!!! VERY cool car

Paul McAteer
December 7, 2011 at 12:04 pm 0 or Flag as not constructive
What a peice of craftsmanship!! The Zebra stripes bring back some memories of being machine gunned by gravel while standing on wet stages in Donegal!

The Cossie shells bare little resemblance to the mk5/6 Escort it shares its name with. Only small things like lights & some glass are interchangeable.
It has the same floorpan as the Saphire Cosworth 4×4 with its longditudal drive train, so lots of tired & shagged out Saphs became donors for Escort rally cars back when you could buy a Motorsport shell “body in white” on a pallet!

Lots of chavs fitted bodykits to FWD escorts to make replicas, but a real one is easily spotted because of its longer wheelbase (& rapid speed!!) North American Escorts bare little resemblance to the Euro cousin so fitting a body kit might take some fab work.

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SirKwietje

If I understand it correctly, this replica of a legendary rally car and no real rally car.
Is such a 909 Motorsport shell more worth than a standard escort cosworth?
My escos is also built of a 909 Motorsport shell and I'm going to give these within a couple years a full resto. I would therefore like to know what state the car the best value retention.
Currently, he is in imperial blue but I want to let him back in the white spray.
All info is welcome. Grtz.

PAUL S

iTrader: (8)

Ford produced a new batch of escort cosworth motorsport shells around the late 90s they came bare in lhd with closures. you could pick them up for under 3k or 10k if you wanted a full wrc version.

D J

There are 2 versions of the motorsport. There is a lightweight factory/dealer road going version with a genuine escort cosworth log book (like a BMW CSL or a 911RS) and there is a trimmed 909 version without any running gear or engine that are not down as an escort cosworth on the log book. These were intended for people who were rallying 4x4 sierras already so they could just drop their running gear straight in and save a few quid. The 909 versions are not recognised by the owners club i believe due to the log book not stating escort cosworth even though they are a genuine shell. The 909 also had no underseal but the road version did.

As standard all motorsports had the following spec - no sunroof - no radio - no aerial - no fogs - no electric windows - no central locking - no padded arm rest - no rear arm rest - no air con - no electric mirrors - no boot release - black door mirrors - no headlight wash - no rear head rests - no light in boot - no low fuel or washer warning lights - no glove box light - black mirrors - no spare wheel cover - fixed rear side windows - no passenger mirror on passenger sunvisor - karmann front seats - a riveted boot floor panel for easy access to the fuel pump.

This is my road going motorsport but i'd love to see some pics of the trimmed shells.

PAUL S

iTrader: (8)

I remember a belgian dealer had a new red trimmed lhd one for sale in motoring news about 10 years ago - wanted 6k for it.

Nordic ford were the ones selling the new batch type. RS breakers down in Portsmouth has a new bare one for sale

Rollinz

here's my 909

JOHNDQ

Did you just get that mate saw it for sale was interested myself!

909's dont have any seam sealer where panels join