mate, there is no luck involved when talking big numbers..

if there is a weak link, it Will be found, and quickly. too many have learnt from this before!

 

well ive built it myself and havnt (cut) corners so to speak.. but yes i know what you mean.

really really now considering dropping to a GT30 and forget the rest

 

Assuming your peak torque is actually high up the rpm band and near your 7200rpm limit, about 480bhp is a realistic power with 1.4bar and 7200rpm on a GT35. (And I'm being very generous!)

Even when heavily modded the zetec engine seems to make power easily up to 400bhp then unfortunetly seems to give exponentially less power per boost than the mighty YB!

A good 2 bar boost at 7200rpm will usually see 500bhp on a decent spec engine.

I have to say the zetec engine is no match for a YB!

 

i seriously dont doubt your experience or knowledge mate and have taken on board what you have said..

in saying that.. i would like some advice if possible??

do you think i should take the billet GT3582 to 2 bar boost?? or am i just asking for trouble? (as in its just going to blow to smitherines?)


also on the subject, again not doubting your experience or knowledge..
another focus RS (which i suspect to be very similar spec to mine) is running a GT28 hybrid turbo.. and is revving to 8500rpm is making close to 550bhp now...
on a totally diferent dyno (he's from scotland)
is this possible? i dont know his boost

 

If the engine has been designed correctly with the correct parts used, then yes take it to 2 bar on the GT35. I see no reason why it won't make 550bhp at that boost and rpm IF the engine is of the correct specification.

Again, no 2.0 zetec is ever going to make 550bhp and rev to 8500rpm using a GT28 based turbine wheel. It is FAR too small. Back pressure and EGT's go through the roof at 450bhp when using a GT28 based turbine.

 

karl you have PM

 

Rollinz, this is why I asked who your mapper was.... HE should of known this

 

he specializes in evo's and scoobys..

my focus is the 1st ford he has done..

 

i personally think the main people to trust with mapping peoples expensive pride and joys are in no particular order

tony turbosystems
sheedy
stu
karl
harvey

anyone else imo is a gamble

 

i know there abilitys are excellent...but what makes them better at "mapping" than Garry at gr performance?

like i said he specializes in scoobs and evo's and has BUILT and mapped a few Time attack cars, he has been mapping for a number of years, but only recently packed in his day job and opened up as a business.. he started the business from nothing really and instead of spending money in spnserships etc he bought a rolling road to map with rather than continue risking his licence live mapping on the road


kind of what ian howel does/did,,, and he (as everyone says) is the GOD of zetecs?? and no slating to ian there as he is the man thats worked his magic on my head

 

Jim from JKM should slip into that list nicely and Im sure some of the above would agree too

 

Rollinz, what rpm was you getting valve bounce at with theft35 at 1.7bar boost?

 

around 5500 - 6000 iirc

 

its not a gt28 wheel but its a gt28 housing custom machined for ian howell , as for the heads i can honestly say ive never heard any problems but jimbo and his old man has had more zetec turbo on there dyno than ive had hot dinners , the only thing ive heard about the heads is the when they are ported big theres not enough material around the water jacket causing the head to overheat . also theres no real problem running to 2 bar as thats what i did , paul johnson , dan arrowsmith did.
karl your right the zetec doesnt compare to a cosworth as the zetec is a production engine and the cosworth yb was developed for motorsport then fitted into a production car , massive difference
like i said before to rollinz my engine is running a big valve head midly ported (cnc matched) and my engine only made 522bhp @ 2 bar.
the zetec doesnt do to badly after 450 bhp either as mine was making a 38bhp gain with 1 psi of boost.
there really is something you should consider before jumping in your car and going for a top speed run , 2 words ADAM MORAN.
CRASHING AT 170+MPH AND HAVING A REALLY BAD INJURY WITHOUT A CAGE FITTED TO THE CAR
this might make you think again because i think you mad
good luck anyway matey

cheers paul

 

And was it all the way to the limiter or did you not go through it?

 

i'd just like to add to this thread/discussion

i am by no means making out my engine that i built or my map mapped by garry at gr is better than anything else on this forum. and i am fully taking in ALL the advice given by EVERYONE on this topic and apreciate any advice that has been given regarding a top speed run and weather or not my car has made 545bhp or more or less etc.. all i can quote is what i have done personally and what the dyno read out on power run, i am hoping for a good power figure.. and after the time ive spent researching and puttin it together (3 years!!!) i hope it will hold together

 

backed off straight away

initially i thought it was my "upgrade" (pugeot) valve springs) that were actually not closing due to too much air pressure/flow

so after 2 runs and it doing the same thing we stopped and removed the head and thats when i sent it to ian howel and had the double spring converwsion etc

 

not having a go bud but thats when you should have choosen someone

with extensive history and know how in ford tuning as Karl said it

can be a very expensive lesson! give your engine and your wallet

the best chance of all being well

Nice to see you on here Karl will be seeing you shortly for a check up

 

If its not using a GT28 exhaust wheel then it can't be classed as a GT28 hybrid. It is the turbine wheel that classifies the basic nomenclature given to each frame of turbo.

 

experience....your guy may well be good with evos and scoobs, and he has to learn somewhere, but i wouldn't like to give someone my engine, that i had put a lot of time, effort and money in to, to someone to "learn" on.

 

Gt35 are very prone to surge you know, I remember you saying you had some serious valve springs in there. We had surge on a 2.0l yb with a 35 at 1.8bar through 4250-5250 ish, mind you, a bit late now.

 

This is where you need to be careful mate.

You need to decide what you want from the car.

A fwd car that is capable of a 190mph top speed in the confines of a 1.5mile strip will not be drivable/usable on the road full stop! Even on track it will be wasted.

FWD with genuine 550+ is really only going to be destined for straight-line work - the drag strip or runway with Mickey T's .

As for engine if I was looking at more power 600+
I would first look into changing the head bolts for a stud conversion.
Secondly hunt for the magic American cast big ported Zetec head.

 

i hear what your saying.. but he is mapping an engine "I" have built.

if i gave my engine to one of the ford reputable mappers and asked for 2 bar boost would they give me 2 bar boost? or say no your engine wont take it?

garry doesnt just ram 2 bar in cause i asked for it.. he will do e.g. 1,4 bar... check everything, whip plugs out and check them, etc etc

then go to 1.6 bar and then check everything again etc and keep going in stages,
he doesnt just ram the boost in and mapp the fuel/ign tables

 

Jimbo is a ported shroud a must on a GT35?

 

lol yeh is a bit late now lol,
now you say that too!!! my OLD turbo didnt have an antisurge housing either..
my new one does.?
very good advice mate

now tell me more about this american head?? is this what the big power amercian ZT cars are us8ing?>

 

Read below fella

Sorry bud lol!

We don't use ported shrouds on any turbo, we use a turbo that dosnt surge at all.

We found putting the ported shroud on the gt35 stopped surge, but not how we wanted. It stopped e turbo producing 32psi until 5000rpm, by which time the surge was mostly gone anyway. We could have done that in the boost map

 

just been reading....

will gallops focus was 660bhp?? zetec turbo??

 

Ha ha I'll keep my fingers crossed Ive got a good one then. Mine came from Karl so I'm hoping it won't be too bad

 

ha ha , your pissing in the wind there mate well and truely as there rarer than rocking horse shit, it would be easier to get a new head cast.
rollinz in no way was my above post a dig mate and i do hope you stick 600+bhp through the zetec , and if your happy with your mapper then stick with him .

 

surely they would all approach the mapping in roughly the same method, building up as they go?

the difference being, the guys who do them all the time will know exactly what to look for, and know when they are reaching the limit of what it can take, and advise you accordingly

 

I believe it was first developed for a drag racer but no more details.
Its certainly not a mass produced part.
Maybe 2 of them maybe 20 I have no idea.

 

With the way we wanted our engine to work the turbo was no good 4000rpm to 9000rpm was the working power band)

Mark shead says he does engines with them that do not surge, may be worth a chat, or Karl if he supplied

 

I tried buying one they wouldn't even consider it.

 

I'm sure Will Gollops Focus wasn't home built mate and had a huuuuuuge budget. it probably got rebuilt every week too.
Get it running, get it mapped to a good safe figure and knock the shit out of it from time to time. These guys are all saying the same thing from different angles.
Horses for courses, yours is a good fast road/ occasional track car enjoy it for that pal

 

just going off thread slightly,what superb reading this is,i would seriously think about taking car to karl and ollie,as there experience and honesty is second to none,through bad experience,s with my white rs500,hello to karl and ollie . ray

 

Cheers pal

 

well thats me done on here for today but again
I THANK everyone for there comments and advice regarding everything discussed.
i have taken it all on board and am now sh1tting myself about wheather or not to even downgrade to a GTX30lol

and again anything i have said hasnt been said against anyones advice, but mearly my own experiences that i have had along the way when building my car

 

Jon,

You're on a 76mm compressor wheel not the GT35 82mm item so have nothing to worry about! I also don't use a ported shroud on any turbo, kind of defeats the entire purpose of running a particular size compressor wheel if you're going to introduce an effective air leak into it!

 

That's my mind at rest then, cheers Karl

 

good luck though mate, as this is what your plan has been for a while now, just take it easy when mapping it, dont pop your new engine chasing figuers, use it fisrt,