ib5 - mtx - getrag - which is best for zt
 

I will be modifying a Quantum H4 which is based on a 1995 Fiesta 1.6 si, which has a standard zetec engine and ib5 gearbox.

I want to put in a zetec turbo with an st170 bottom half and a blacktop head as per the post by Karlos G, which looks like a good way of getting to about 300 bhp at sensible cost.

I am not sure which gearbox to go for, there seem to be 3 options:

1. Fit the ib5 uprated, but I have read these can only cope with about 200 bhp before going bang.

2. Fit an mtx gearbox.

3. Fit the st170 getrag box.

I don't know what chassis mod's the mtx or getrag gearboxes involve, the chassi and gearbox cradle on the car are the same as the Fiesta, I als dont know the best clutches etc to use and custom driveshafts would be needed, also I would have no idea how to deal with the gear linkage for the mtx or getrag.

Any other words of advice gratefully received!!!

if your heading any where near a true 300hp and tq the mtx75 every day.

If the ST170 bottom end already has a ST170 flywheel and clutch then the 6spd Getrag will bolt straight on and be happy with 300bhp too. Otherwise, MTX all day.

mtx75, the getrag hasn't earned its stripes in a ford yet, the vauxhall ones seem to be properly strong in some forms though.

As far as i recall, the getrag is basically the same as the rover 6 speeder and the vauxhall f28, so should be very strong! Mtx is probably the cheapest option though and should be fairly reliable.

Id stick with the ib5 my car handle it a 300hp and it had loads of stick at pod ! I have broke 3 mtx boxes

Dont bother with the getrag. The ST170 Dual mass flywheel and clutch would soon shit itself at that power and you'd need a TTV billet flywheel or similar then and uprated clutch.
If you use an MTX75, a Focus RS clutch goes straight in with a std 2.0 blacktop flywheel.
MTX75 is Cheaper, Stronger and Proven.
You'll need custom driveshaft though, but they're easily sourced

QplateRST You must be the only person in the world to have killed an MTX and revert back to an IB5!

Why do people insist on quoting power for gearboxes? They are rated in Torque!

The ST170 Getrag box is rated by them at 330 lb\ft so thats probably got a decent margin of safety in it too,

the mtx is strong but the shift isnt all that IMO

Keep it simple. IB5 then if it breaks upgrade to Focus RS.

You can't go wrong for £50. If their good enough for a 300+ bhp drag car their good enough for most folk

I'd factor in weight of the car, grip levels and how the boost is mapped as well as torque

I went focus rs box with a shit load of extra goodness worked into it

Just use an IB5, and swap in every time it lets go.

They're cheap as chips, you could use 10 of em and it would still work out cheaper than a mtx/ getrag with custom everything

Including recovery costs, or track day payment being wasted?
There are no unbreakable boxes, some have.more sucess.with some than others. I believe the mtx75 suffers with selector fork issues, where as the ib5 is bearing failure and main shaft breakages.

Who says its gonna be used on track?

Who says it isn't? :cry:

As stuart says ;)
It doesn't matter whether it is or isn't, i made the choice of Mtx 75 in my xr2 as i specified my engine to have a good power output, i researched the box and the stats for shaft sizes, bearings and failure rates were good compared with the ib5.
It hasn't failed yet is all i'm saying.
If i had fitted the high failure rate ib5 and it broke i'd have kicked myself for not doing the mtx in the first place, then i'd have factored in the cost of loss and i don't think there would be much in it.
It cost me 2k all in, that did include the ap paddle clutch, stack speedo and matching stack rev counter just to match really. A cts2+ would be around that without the luxury of stepper gauges and a smooth cable shift.

how much does the MTX drive shafts cost??

mine cost me £50

Mine were £160 for the shafts, but then i spent £40 on a set of mondeo ones for the bearing and intermediate shaft along with both inner cv's, then already had xr2 ones.
Mine are made from 40 Rockwell steel and should take loads of stress, however they can be hardened further. Weak link is my xr2 outer cv's.

didn't someone else have a set made which snapped @ sanda pod?

that was clarke with his mk2 fez

Yeah clarke snapped his.

Focus RS box
 

Are the Focus RS Mk1 and Mk2 RS boxes the same?

Mk2 boxes are completely different.
Yup clarke broke one of his shafts. Bit of a story behind our shafts, both from the same guy, however i got mine done first out of 40rockwell, he told me he only just had enough to make mine, all tapered beautifully, took him my cv's i wanted them to fit and job done. However Clarke wanted some making and the same steel was used apparently, even though he told me he'd used the last on mine.
Now clarke is no liar, but i'm unsure if his were actually made of the tougher steel mine were. Anyhow, his actually twisted on the splined area in the mk2 fiesta outer cv's, our designs were slightly different and has been some speculation as to a finish being the problem.
I have yet to launch up the pod at all, but running very similar boost out of similar engines on identical turbo's i've still got mine intact. He has slicks and happened on launching.
Perhaps having them hardened further could have made them last.
Not sure on a final solution, sleeved ones are the other option, cheaper too.

is it just mk2's that need to have the shafts made or can you fit a zetec with an mt into a rs turbo with stock shafts?

I was putting 580bhp and 520ft lbs of torque thru my STANDARD focus Rs gearbox.....

Change oil regular and never once gave me a problem,

Its still going too but i dint own the car anymore,

So imo get a focus rs mtx75

They all need custom shafts unless the car came out the factory with an option of the mtx75
Think in terms of cv joints and distance between hubs vary from car to car.

Just out of interest when and how long did you run 580 through a standard rs box?

I thought the weakness of a standard box was the synchro or sector forks, so don't smash through the gears too hard or fast.
Everything else about the mtx75 is bigger than the ib5, mainshafts are huge in comparison.

5th gear falls off aswell ;)

IB 5 box is a waste of time you will break it, i would rather spend an extra few pennies in the begging stages of a build then cut costs now and pay for them later on.

Ive used both gearbox's and drove them both fucking hard with big power.

ST170 box
In a mk6 fiesta running 440bhp with matching torque, slammed through gears, burnouts, drag strips the lot, and it started whining a bit after about 6k miles.

Downsides - You need a billet flywheel, paddle clutch and front plate. About £700 for USA. And you need a diff - £600

MTX box -
In a mk6 fiesta running 540bhp with matching torque, again drove it like i just stole it and was absolutely fine. Comes with a diff already, and the clutches are about £350 brand new.

AND i have one for sale. lol

MTX box - £550 and a AP paddle clutch and front plate £250, the box has just been rebuilt also with new bearings!

Well over a year,
Including some hard driving and a harsh day at bruntingthorpe and a track day at silverstone,
Changed gearbox oil every time i changed engine oil,


People usually neglect gearbox's

Good idea on box oil, dead easy to change on these too.
I have only done 2.3k miles on mine, still not broken though.

Yeh this is the problem with most tuned cars, people just neglegt the gearbox, an oil change in a gearbox is just as important as an engine imo!

If your hard ore track slag aswell you cant go worng with fitting a little remote pump and oil cooler for it too,
This will obviously cool the oil on track days but also increases is capacity slightly, hot gearbox oil is definatly a failure for bearings.

I assume that the st170 and Focus RS mk1 gearboxes are very different given how much they sell for?

Completely different, frs ones are an mtx75 with a quaife diff, st170 are a getrag box with an open diff.
The diffs are just over £600 on their own for the frs.

this is what i plan for mine, will see what size cooler and where i can mount over winter i think

A lot of people on here make out like fitting an mtx is a piece of piss my mtx took about a week of messing to fit then it had rubbish ratios so it was out again if you can't weld then you will have to pay for somebody to fabricate a mount for you and of your not good with a spanner then somebody to fit it

my clutch alone cost £600 then there's shafts mounts and also an rs box to pay for

My ib5 gearbox stood me at £750 with a quaife and a helix clutch fully rebuilt

Where as im into 2k mark with my mtx and it made me slower up the drag strip due to poor ratios

I don't mean to but in but where is everyone getting there custom drive shafts from??

I am fitting the FRS box in my S2 RST but not really looked into the drive shafts until now. I have had a very good price but need to knock up some patterns by cutting and shutting FRS and RST shafts together. I would have to but a cut some FRS shafts just to bin them when the new uns are made, not some thing i really want to do. And as for measuring them up and giving dimension to a firm to work from is a bit of a non starter as i have no real point to measure from as yet.

Any one got any real technical info or know of a firm that makes them with out the need for all this malarkey?

Cheers dudes

firstly you will need the cv's for the mtx and rst anyhow, so you will need some shafts, but get some 2.0 mondeo ones, much cheaper and just as good ;)
none off the shelf, it's either cut and shut or lots of measuring.
i got mine done by a man in a shed so to speak, look through my thread to find any details on this, i won't advertise on here.
dean now has mine for his mk2 fiesta, so will see how they fare on a drag car, as opposed to me throwing 2BAR through a 2.1 ZT on road tyres.