Where's my power? Dyno T34 & 55lb's
#41
10K+ Poster!!
iTrader: (4)
Yes it will. Park in traffic and then put your hand on the intercooler bolted to a 90 Deg C radiator and tell me if its now hot. If it is then its on its way to becoming an interwarmer instead and its cooling efficiency will drop hugely.
A great place to try this is Santa Pod.
The air passing through an intercooler is NOT supposed to be trying to cool the intercooler down to ambient from 90C...
A great place to try this is Santa Pod.
The air passing through an intercooler is NOT supposed to be trying to cool the intercooler down to ambient from 90C...
#42
Zee Germans are coming
Yes it will. Park in traffic and then put your hand on the intercooler bolted to a 90 Deg C radiator and tell me if its now hot. If it is then its on its way to becoming an interwarmer instead and its cooling efficiency will drop hugely.
A great place to try this is Santa Pod.
The air passing through an intercooler is NOT supposed to be trying to cool the intercooler down to ambient from 90C...
A great place to try this is Santa Pod.
The air passing through an intercooler is NOT supposed to be trying to cool the intercooler down to ambient from 90C...
what i typed is purley his own advise as he made me a custom 1 off rad and cooler and mounted the two as closely together as poss
and the car the cooler is fitted to has no problems what so ever
and the car in question is a 500 bhp zetec turbo fez
but surely a shit hot cooler and rad will have such good recovery when moving anyway
#43
Testing the future
but in doing that you have a high on air pressure and the air flow slows right down as i passes through the cooler thus giving a low air on pressure to he rad
low air pressure on the rad can only result in 1 thing
hight water temps
think about it
the act will not heat up from the rad as both will be getting good high air pressure passing through giving good cooling
but if you have a shite cooler and rad your fucked from the start lol
low air pressure on the rad can only result in 1 thing
hight water temps
think about it
the act will not heat up from the rad as both will be getting good high air pressure passing through giving good cooling
but if you have a shite cooler and rad your fucked from the start lol
#45
Zee Germans are coming
is that with the cooler and rad close together
#46
PassionFord Post Troll
Been on a rolling road day today, and the car was run with disappointing results.
Spec: T34.48, 55lb siemens, Pace cooler, 4x4 inlet plenum, bosch 044 fuel pump.
On motorway car pulls well, peak of 30psi, holding 25-26psi through most of the revs, not sure over 6,000 rpm though (need to check), wideband AFR gauge indicates approx 11.5-12 on boost.
Anyway was expecting bhp 340+ish
Results of runs 2 & 3: 290's clutch bhp, 270's bhp at wheels (average transmission loss = 17 bhp), 360's lb/ft torque.
I can't understand why if the car is holding boost (significantly more than a T3 can), how it is under 300bhp ? And why the bhp doesn't raise even slowly after the inital boost spike.
RR was at AwesomeGTI, cooling fan on for runs, other Saphs gave reasonable results for there spec.
My intercooler practically touches my radiator, but would be supprised if the heat sink from that caused the issue.
Spec: T34.48, 55lb siemens, Pace cooler, 4x4 inlet plenum, bosch 044 fuel pump.
On motorway car pulls well, peak of 30psi, holding 25-26psi through most of the revs, not sure over 6,000 rpm though (need to check), wideband AFR gauge indicates approx 11.5-12 on boost.
Anyway was expecting bhp 340+ish
Results of runs 2 & 3: 290's clutch bhp, 270's bhp at wheels (average transmission loss = 17 bhp), 360's lb/ft torque.
I can't understand why if the car is holding boost (significantly more than a T3 can), how it is under 300bhp ? And why the bhp doesn't raise even slowly after the inital boost spike.
RR was at AwesomeGTI, cooling fan on for runs, other Saphs gave reasonable results for there spec.
My intercooler practically touches my radiator, but would be supprised if the heat sink from that caused the issue.
Hope you find the missing ( if they are indeed absent ) horses soon
#47
10K+ Poster!!
iTrader: (4)
also bear in mind i was hitting about 140 mph by the time i was backing off.
Last edited by scoooby slayer; 22-05-2012 at 07:10 PM.
#48
Mike
Yes the cars still going. Not so well on rollers though.
Going to make a few changes and improvements around the inlet system (spacing/heat shielding/wraping etc), then take it for a run on a private deserted road and monitor boost and act up the rev range.
My cooler is a 50mm Pace one made in 2007, so maybe not the best in comparision to the current units around, However, should be up to it for the 350hp i'm aiming for.
Yes the cars still going. Not so well on rollers though.
Going to make a few changes and improvements around the inlet system (spacing/heat shielding/wraping etc), then take it for a run on a private deserted road and monitor boost and act up the rev range.
My cooler is a 50mm Pace one made in 2007, so maybe not the best in comparision to the current units around, However, should be up to it for the 350hp i'm aiming for.
#51
Zee Germans are coming
#53
It may "work" but I assure you if the rad and intercooler are bolted together that it works far from "Perfectly". However, as long as your happy, nothing else matters... just beware of giving people bad advise like that as all it achieves is costing people money, or maybe even engines.
#54
Competition Technology
I boost at 30 PSI and hold at 28 - on a T3 stage 3 Hybrid from Turbo Technics, with 34 actuator only f**k knows what a larger turbo from turbotechnics can hold, im maxing my turbo out though when i floor it, spools up instantly and lays it on thick !!!!! right through the gear ratios.
also try going to a different RR and see what their one tells you ?
I use GRS intercooler and PRO ALLOY Radiator, very very little clearance but i have good air flow and coverage.
also try going to a different RR and see what their one tells you ?
I use GRS intercooler and PRO ALLOY Radiator, very very little clearance but i have good air flow and coverage.
#56
Zee Germans are coming
It may "work" but I assure you if the rad and intercooler are bolted together that it works far from "Perfectly". However, as long as your happy, nothing else matters... just beware of giving people bad advise like that as all it achieves is costing people money, or maybe even engines.
i never give out known false or damaging advise thanks
#57
Zee Germans are coming
I boost at 30 PSI and hold at 28 - on a T3 stage 3 Hybrid from Turbo Technics, with 34 actuator only f**k knows what a larger turbo from turbotechnics can hold, im maxing my turbo out though when i floor it, spools up instantly and lays it on thick !!!!! right through the gear ratios.
also try going to a different RR and see what their one tells you ?
I use GRS intercooler and PRO ALLOY Radiator, very very little clearance but i have good air flow and coverage.
also try going to a different RR and see what their one tells you ?
I use GRS intercooler and PRO ALLOY Radiator, very very little clearance but i have good air flow and coverage.
#58
Zee Germans are coming
no mate it wasnt
but have you known them to give that info before
think its best not to go down the name who it was road as it will just start a cooler war lol
and i dont want to be the next cossie4i lol
but have you known them to give that info before
think its best not to go down the name who it was road as it will just start a cooler war lol
and i dont want to be the next cossie4i lol
Last edited by v man; 23-05-2012 at 11:14 AM.
#60
Zee Germans are coming
sorry for the confusion here stu but in my first post i said to get the cooler and rad as close as poss
never said bolted together
and as i also said if the cooler and rad arent great quality then it aint going to help is it
never said bolted together
and as i also said if the cooler and rad arent great quality then it aint going to help is it
Last edited by v man; 23-05-2012 at 11:27 AM.
#62
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He dosn't come to your work & knock the sailors cocks out of your mouth does he? ( This is a joke btw, Jimmy Carr, been looking for an excuse to use it for ages!)
#63
Zee Germans are coming
if you read all my posts that havent been edited then you can clearly see ive sujested getting the rad and cooler as close as poss
never once said bolt the two together
so id just like to thank the others who tried to shoot me down when they havnt read all the post clearly
the fact is if the gap between the rad and cooler is too big with a 500 style cooler it can and will give water temp problems
would you say thats right info stu
#64
Zee Germans are coming
You are though! Stu does this for a living day in & day out, and sees hundreds of cars a year! I'd listen to the pros personally!
He dosn't come to your work & knock the sailors cocks out of your mouth does he? ( This is a joke btw, Jimmy Carr, been looking for an excuse to use it for ages!)
He dosn't come to your work & knock the sailors cocks out of your mouth does he? ( This is a joke btw, Jimmy Carr, been looking for an excuse to use it for ages!)
and working in the air con industry, air flow is very important
Last edited by v man; 23-05-2012 at 11:44 AM.
#67
Competition Technology
Lol mate not fussed if the PF Sheep dont believe it, i never thought it possible myself on a T3 looking at Pressure capabilities of the T3 but my turbo is not just a T3 its 3 stages above it but please trust me on the 30 PSI and 28 steady.
Turbotechnics are the global leaders in turbo balancing, building and machining and for my T3 stage 3 to do the 30 PSI it does is very much a great thing haha. so i would recommend them to anyone looking for top class engineering and balancing and along with it unrivalled reliability.
i dont drive hard 24 - 7 but ii know the turbo i have has 30 PSI maximum capability, i mean holy shit 20 is enough without using all of the pedal !! so i tend to drive like that, regulating my boost through the accelerator but would probably benefit from an electronic boost control system. As 30 PSI , when i use the whole lot is just PURE AND UTTER SAVEGERY on the motorway and doing quick boots down town high streets, got to love the old people taking cover when the wastgate blows off the excess pressure, they must think its a bomb dropping the poor dumb bastards, i mean especially down town streets where the sound bounces of the walls either side and sets of car alarms when you go by lol, ive even somehow managed to to get a women in her 30's hold her hand bag over her head while leaning and squatting against a shop window while i accelerated quickly then blew the wastegate off, i do it deliberately admittedly but its a good laugh.
Turbotechnics are the global leaders in turbo balancing, building and machining and for my T3 stage 3 to do the 30 PSI it does is very much a great thing haha. so i would recommend them to anyone looking for top class engineering and balancing and along with it unrivalled reliability.
i dont drive hard 24 - 7 but ii know the turbo i have has 30 PSI maximum capability, i mean holy shit 20 is enough without using all of the pedal !! so i tend to drive like that, regulating my boost through the accelerator but would probably benefit from an electronic boost control system. As 30 PSI , when i use the whole lot is just PURE AND UTTER SAVEGERY on the motorway and doing quick boots down town high streets, got to love the old people taking cover when the wastgate blows off the excess pressure, they must think its a bomb dropping the poor dumb bastards, i mean especially down town streets where the sound bounces of the walls either side and sets of car alarms when you go by lol, ive even somehow managed to to get a women in her 30's hold her hand bag over her head while leaning and squatting against a shop window while i accelerated quickly then blew the wastegate off, i do it deliberately admittedly but its a good laugh.
#68
PassionFord Post Whore!!
I have a very large pace radiator and chargecooler rad in my 5.
They are bolted together, i dont have any engine water cooling ossues but i do have act cooling issues (many different reasons why that im currently sorting)
One of the things i am thinking of doing is spacing the chargecooler rad.
Currently the engine rad has locating lugs in the bottom and a couple if support bars fixing the top.
Then there are 2 90brackets welded to the sides where a bolt goes through to a nut welded to the pre rad fixing that.
The end tanks of both rads are currently touching.
Due to this i cant move the pre rad easily but am thinking i will try putting a small cotton reel in to fix the pre rad and give a small gap, then use some foam to seal the joints.
Does this sound like a good idea?
They are bolted together, i dont have any engine water cooling ossues but i do have act cooling issues (many different reasons why that im currently sorting)
One of the things i am thinking of doing is spacing the chargecooler rad.
Currently the engine rad has locating lugs in the bottom and a couple if support bars fixing the top.
Then there are 2 90brackets welded to the sides where a bolt goes through to a nut welded to the pre rad fixing that.
The end tanks of both rads are currently touching.
Due to this i cant move the pre rad easily but am thinking i will try putting a small cotton reel in to fix the pre rad and give a small gap, then use some foam to seal the joints.
Does this sound like a good idea?
#69
Zee Germans are coming
I have a very large pace radiator and chargecooler rad in my 5.
They are bolted together, i dont have any engine water cooling ossues but i do have act cooling issues (many different reasons why that im currently sorting)
One of the things i am thinking of doing is spacing the chargecooler rad.
Currently the engine rad has locating lugs in the bottom and a couple if support bars fixing the top.
Then there are 2 90brackets welded to the sides where a bolt goes through to a nut welded to the pre rad fixing that.
The end tanks of both rads are currently touching.
Due to this i cant move the pre rad easily but am thinking i will try putting a small cotton reel in to fix the pre rad and give a small gap, then use some foam to seal the joints.
Does this sound like a good idea?
They are bolted together, i dont have any engine water cooling ossues but i do have act cooling issues (many different reasons why that im currently sorting)
One of the things i am thinking of doing is spacing the chargecooler rad.
Currently the engine rad has locating lugs in the bottom and a couple if support bars fixing the top.
Then there are 2 90brackets welded to the sides where a bolt goes through to a nut welded to the pre rad fixing that.
The end tanks of both rads are currently touching.
Due to this i cant move the pre rad easily but am thinking i will try putting a small cotton reel in to fix the pre rad and give a small gap, then use some foam to seal the joints.
Does this sound like a good idea?
thats with out the car even being run
and with a charge cooler set up you have water to cool not just air
#70
Testing the future
what do i know, i only worked for a leading global automotive heat exchanger manufacturer preparing and testing their products on vehicles in a climatic wind tunnel for 12 years?
as close together as possible is not best as long as they are well ducted so that no airflow gets lost in between. don't talk nonsense about low pressure, low speed etc, as the pressure drop through each matrix is the same whether they are close together or far apart. either your so called expert was talking shit that you are regurgitating, or you misunderstood them
as close together as possible is not best as long as they are well ducted so that no airflow gets lost in between. don't talk nonsense about low pressure, low speed etc, as the pressure drop through each matrix is the same whether they are close together or far apart. either your so called expert was talking shit that you are regurgitating, or you misunderstood them
#71
Testing the future
I have a very large pace radiator and chargecooler rad in my 5.
They are bolted together, i dont have any engine water cooling ossues but i do have act cooling issues (many different reasons why that im currently sorting)
One of the things i am thinking of doing is spacing the chargecooler rad.
Currently the engine rad has locating lugs in the bottom and a couple if support bars fixing the top.
Then there are 2 90brackets welded to the sides where a bolt goes through to a nut welded to the pre rad fixing that.
The end tanks of both rads are currently touching.
Due to this i cant move the pre rad easily but am thinking i will try putting a small cotton reel in to fix the pre rad and give a small gap, then use some foam to seal the joints.
Does this sound like a good idea?
They are bolted together, i dont have any engine water cooling ossues but i do have act cooling issues (many different reasons why that im currently sorting)
One of the things i am thinking of doing is spacing the chargecooler rad.
Currently the engine rad has locating lugs in the bottom and a couple if support bars fixing the top.
Then there are 2 90brackets welded to the sides where a bolt goes through to a nut welded to the pre rad fixing that.
The end tanks of both rads are currently touching.
Due to this i cant move the pre rad easily but am thinking i will try putting a small cotton reel in to fix the pre rad and give a small gap, then use some foam to seal the joints.
Does this sound like a good idea?
#73
Zee Germans are coming
what do i know, i only worked for a leading global automotive heat exchanger manufacturer preparing and testing their products on vehicles in a climatic wind tunnel for 12 years?
as close together as possible is not best as long as they are well ducted so that no airflow gets lost in between. don't talk nonsense about low pressure, low speed etc, as the pressure drop through each matrix is the same whether they are close together or far apart. either your so called expert was talking shit that you are regurgitating, or you misunderstood them
as close together as possible is not best as long as they are well ducted so that no airflow gets lost in between. don't talk nonsense about low pressure, low speed etc, as the pressure drop through each matrix is the same whether they are close together or far apart. either your so called expert was talking shit that you are regurgitating, or you misunderstood them
people have mentioned having a 5 mm gap
do you think a 3 mm gap will be much different
remember we aint talking about sitting in traffic conditions
please explain how you can have 2 surfaces 1 behind each other and the second has the same air flow speed than the first
#74
Testing the future
i also mention ducting
people have mentioned having a 5 mm gap
do you think a 3 mm gap will be much different
remember we aint talking about sitting in traffic conditions
please explain how you can have 2 surfaces 1 behind each other and the second has the same air flow speed than the first
people have mentioned having a 5 mm gap
do you think a 3 mm gap will be much different
remember we aint talking about sitting in traffic conditions
please explain how you can have 2 surfaces 1 behind each other and the second has the same air flow speed than the first
#75
We all read it properly, and it was patently unclear what you meant to portray, as to most people, "as close together as possible", would indicate pysical contact.
I was very clear in my statement that they should not touch as everyone seems to know what I meant, so I think rather than fire sarcastic smileys around you would be better off giving more attention to your wording.
#76
Live long and prosper!!
iTrader: (1)
Mine peaks around 32psi on the secs but havent really noticed what its held to busy keeping an eye on the road.
Pulls well with plenty of torque tho
Paul
#77
Took the car on the road yesterday and found that the inlet temps were high 30's raising to 50 oC at the top of the rev range (ambient temps about 27 oC).
What temp is considered too high and does anyone know what temp MSD maps pull back performance for safety?
As has been sugested by Tony 'Turbosystems', i think my Pace cooler is not workig very well and inlets way too high.
What temp is considered too high and does anyone know what temp MSD maps pull back performance for safety?
As has been sugested by Tony 'Turbosystems', i think my Pace cooler is not workig very well and inlets way too high.
#79
Super Moderator
iTrader: (5)
performance is lost with air temps going up purely because of the reduced oxygen content by volume
climbing act's are often a result of the the turbo compressor being out of it's efficiency map
what was your boost curve with rpm
when the weather is hot and ambients of 27C the air temp will rise
hot weather the car will be slow compared with cold days
your power loss has nothing to do with any std weber safety strategy that is in your chip at 50C act
You will know when these are activated as the power will just switch off
My advice is to take your car to a real specialist for examination and proper advice
climbing act's are often a result of the the turbo compressor being out of it's efficiency map
what was your boost curve with rpm
when the weather is hot and ambients of 27C the air temp will rise
hot weather the car will be slow compared with cold days
your power loss has nothing to do with any std weber safety strategy that is in your chip at 50C act
You will know when these are activated as the power will just switch off
My advice is to take your car to a real specialist for examination and proper advice
Last edited by Turbosystems; 27-05-2012 at 08:23 AM.
#80
Paul
I'll send him a txt and see, just need a load of fuel.
Tony
When boost comes on in mid 3000's giving 30psi, soon drops to around 26pi, holding about 23psi at the top end.
I have just spaced my cooler OFF the radiator as they were against each other at one end.
I'll send him a txt and see, just need a load of fuel.
Tony
When boost comes on in mid 3000's giving 30psi, soon drops to around 26pi, holding about 23psi at the top end.
I have just spaced my cooler OFF the radiator as they were against each other at one end.