Alps Pacino

I beat an m3 on my old gixxer 600 down the motorway so i doubt you would get anywhere near the likes of a zx10r in an m3

C4llyT

337bhp will not give anything like that top speed, not here on Earth anyway.
171ish maybe.

Rippers

When my Monte was Stage three I asked my mate to race me in my own E46 M3 and the Esc would pull away from the M3 everytime

AndyBrew

where did F1 cars come into it

my point was that an FRS is one of the best handling front wheel drive cars you can buy and can be pretty quick in the right hands and would in no way be embarrassed by an M3, and if the driver of the FRS was half handy would probably piss all over an M3 if say I was driving it, that works both ways obviously but my point was and still is a 310/310+ FRS is most definately a match for a standard M3 all day everyday

but I do conceed an FRS would struggle to keep up with an F1 car

pani_k

iTrader: (1)

Both different leagues of car imo and for what the FRS is, it is an awesome piece of kit. Like comparing an F1 car to a rally car.

Spammage

Nothings impossible and the frs is a good handling car no reason it couldn't pull away from an M3

according to http://www.m3zine.com/index.php/E46-M3.html
the m3 weighs 3400 lbs which works out to 1542 Kg's abit heavier than the FRS.So that works out at 216 Bhp per ton whearas a FRS with 310BHp weighing 1230 kgs would be 252 BHP per ton so quicker in a straight line and probably just as handy round the bends.

Crowder

Very believeable. In my old 300bhp rs i used to embariss a mates 350bhp evo and 330 bhp subarus etc above 50mph. Another good friend had an m3 csl and wasnt very happy with how close it was LOL. Cracking cars once in 2nd. Best was a 996 911 turbo 40-110 there was really not a huge amount in it after that though he changed gear and fucked off

TurboShed

Yeah but come on, this is Top Gear not a laboratory.

Jim Galbally

i dont understand the "a FRS handles really well therefore it'll embarrass an M3" mentality

do you know what an E46 M3 is?

do you know what it was designed to do?

it is without a doubt amongst THE BEST handling sports coupe's ever made, it will actually go round a corner

Jim Galbally

here's a pretty good comparison, nurburgring production lap times

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordsch..._car_lap_times

BMW E46 M3 - 7:50
Ford Focus RS - 9:05


yeah, those M3s have shit handling

C4llyT

Yeah, but we're comparing it to a front wheel drive driving school/shopping run car, it just won't be a patch on it!

pani_k

iTrader: (1)

But people are comparing a RWD German Sports Coupe made for both luxury and cruising with a 3.2 6 pot 343bhp engine with...

A FWD 2.0 4 pot turbocharged hot hatch that makes 212bhp as standard.

You can get a good low miles M3 for what Ł16-Ł18k or so at the moment. Maybe Ł20k plus for a 20-30k mileage one with the SMG box etc etc.

You can also get a good low miles FRS with maybe some mods here and there or even standard with low miles for Ł12-Ł14k. Spend Ł3-Ł5k or so on the FRS and I'm pretty sure it could give an M3 a run for its money both handling wise and straight line speed.

And it's FWD as well so that's another handicap.

Crowder

The rs as standard is pants with 212bhp mine last 24hours before it was remapd, decated and airfilterd to more like 260 then it starts getting htere! Around a track i was bullying r34 gtrs, pulsars, 4x4 cossies, escos's etc yeh ok on the straight the r34s destroyed it but bring a few corners back and for a fwd car theyre fantastic. I'd go as far to say that my evo was only a tiny bit better in the dry than the frs...

focuschivvy

its all about the drivers too! i was pulling away from a 350 brake evo 6 in mine, cause the bloke couldnt drive for toffee! took him about 5 seconds to change gear then when it came to the corners.....well....good god put a decentdriver in the evo and he wudda run rings around me all day long

C4llyT

Little brother had an Evo TME, I've never been so scared as when he went round bends and roundabouts, just a physics defying car.
To say a focus was only just not as good in the dry is mental - fwd vs 4wd rally car with AYC making it get round.
I'm no nervous passenger, but that evo and bends was something else.

Spammage

Shouldn't you be on passion bmw or something why don't you educate us on what it was designed to do i personally do not know the exact intetions of the designers when they were producing the M3 but obviously speed and handling were in mind which i'm guessing is what the designers of the rs had in mind. I don't think the M3 is the only car which can "go round a corner". Also the lap times you posted for the nurburgring were obviously for standard cars but were/i'm not talking about a standard foci but one with an estimated power output of 310bhp and i believe in the right hands could get round the 'ring just as quickly if not faster than a standard e46 m3.

C4llyT

Last paragraph: http://www.usautoparts.net/bmw/model...m3_e36_pg2.htm

And things move on....

Jim Galbally

spammage, we've already showed that the FRS has more bhp per tonne than the E46 m3, and as having some small knowledge of the track itself, i don't beleive adding 50 off bhp to one would knock off 1.10


look, ive been in a FRS, and i was EXTREMELY impressed with the way it handles, the diff kinda pulled the front end into the corner where the steering input alone was insufficient. also the punchyness and acceleration were extremely impressive, certainly as quick as my e36 (which is slower than an e46). a very "chuckable" hot hatch for sure

i have also been in many an E46 m3, and they handle SUPERBLY, the ease at which it will go round a corner is inspiring. you just put on the steering angle, aim for the apex, and apply power, its like the car is speaking to you and saying "i could have gone round that SO much faster, try harder..."

so let's summarise

the FRS is a great car
the E46 M3 is a great car

a stock M3 will go round the nurburgring and topgear testtrack quicker than a FRS

you can make a FRS go faster
you can make an M3 go faster

does that pretty much sum it up

AndyBrew

the phrase "touched a nerve" springs to mind

Jim Galbally

why would it touch a nerve, i don't have and E46 M3

SapphyMike

ateotd, its still a Focus RS boy racer car

and the M3 isnt much better

M5 FTW!

Spammage

Fair enough fella

dreamin

just thought id chuck this into the equation,

how much was an e46 m3 NEW
how much was a FRS NEW ,

around double the price iirc

so comparimg the 2 cars really is pointless but good to see fords (modded or not) still able to create convo's like this

C4llyT

The 150k mile rusty blown 4x4 box calibra turbo I had which had a chip, fmic, and squashed fpr would have worried an E46 M3 in a straight line, hardly a big deal.

danneth

all these figures getting thrown about, so my standard CTR is 18 secs quicker then an FRS round the ring

Steven_RW

I dont recall saying I was anywhere near him.

Fact, if I am doing 160 mph u need to be doing 180 mph to get away any reasonable distance (IE over the horizon and far away) he pulled a good few hundred meters, but then a corner in the M'way arrives, he has to lift (he must be registering 180 odd) and I dont lift, all of a sudden u are back together again.

Thats all pretty factual and I have raced plenty of bikes. They are very very very quick - lower down they are so much faster than a normal car its scary and pointless - U can only play with them in the upper speeds due to stability of car and the fact that to really annihilate a car doing 160 on the way to 170 is to be going so much faster for a reasonable length of time and most roads dont allow it, most riders wont do it either. I always just try and get the car to the highest speed possible quickly as anything below 100 they uber warp u

It didn't look like a 600 but I couldnt get alongside to see. Second note - it was much faster than me and for a car to do what it did to me - it would have to be a REALLY quick car.

Just talking about the long legs on an M3.

One last thing - I would say the M3 could get to about 180 speedo which is about 170 irl - not this 191 talk - no chance - never in a million years.

Cheers!

RW

Crowder

Cally bearing in mind i've had a 2 frs, 240/STD all the way through to 300bhp and a 330bhp evo 5 mate i reackon i can comment! indry other than launching there aint much in it with the rs was running hr 25mm springs and paradas

Crowds.

Crowder

Agreed jim but an rs costs small cash to get to 300bhp same as gaining 20 on an e46. not many rs's are standard.

Dont get me wrong i love m3#s and so nearly made myself bankrupt at 21 buying my mates csl wish i had!

Jim Galbally

danneth, those are FULL LAP times. do not compare them to bridge to gantry times that us tourists use

Spammage

I allways wondered that cos on the top gear one with clarkson in the jag you can see he enters at the end of the long straight and the come off at the beginning ahh it all makes sense now!!!

AndyBrew

I draw your attention to the original thread, basic opinion appears to be that yes a solid 310hp FRS would spank an E46 M3 to 100mph and if not it would be pretty damn close. We then get the normal BMW fan club slagging off the FRS and suggesting that an FRS can't drag its ass around a corner and then some bollox about an F1 car

maybe the way to deal with the thread would of been a. not to justify why the M3 is better in every way other than what the question was about or b. except defeat graciously

pani_k

iTrader: (1)

RichardPON

Having driven a few heavily modified Focus RS's and a few M3s, I don't see how it could possibly be "spanked" anywhere.

No doubt that there wouldn't be much in it either way, but out of the two cars, no real driver is ever choosing a FWD Focus.

pani_k

iTrader: (1)

Everybody knows the M3 is the better all round car, but this is a fucking Ford enthusiasts site and everybody is firing cheap shots in the way of the FRS and bumming the M3 up its tailpipes . Why can't people accept that the guy outdid an M3? Is it that much of a shock that it's unacceptable?

RichardPON

Outdid him in what way?

Pulled a car length over 4 gears? Lapped Castle Combe 10 seconds quicker?

AndyBrew

"i had a play today with a E46 M3 and beat it down this duel carrage way to about 100 then had to brake hard"

there you go Rich just in case you missed it

Turbosystems

iTrader: (5)

they'd choose an mr2

danneth

but on that site you linked me too im seeing?


8:47 Honda Civic Type-R 200PS/1204KG Horst von Saurma
Sport Auto 11/01


9:05 Ford Focus RS 215PS/1355KG

Sport Auto 09/05

or am i missing something?

C4llyT

Was your ayc fucked, or are you just a shit driver?

Jim Galbally

danneth i thought you meant your personal car and your own laptimes