Just left a couple of mates working on my mates car that we have converted to cossie management.(series one turbo). We got to the point tonight ready for fire up. With all the plugs out, in the leads and ontop of the rocker we cranked it over and had a great spark. We also got fuel. So thought great, put it all together again and tried firing it up. It didnt try. Took plugs out and theyre soaked! Dried them off, left them out for a while and tries again. Same thing, plugs out soaked!

Just trying to get some Ideas. Im not there now but theyll probs still be trying so thought Id ask on here as it might be something we have over looked!

BTW, cossie management was pulled off another running cossie managed S1, not by us though.

Cheers.

 

id be questioning the map if you didnt see it run personaly.

you need to do resistance checks on all sensors to and from ecu with and without harness connected, using a `scope check firing points and crank positions in relation to tdc points etc

 

check the sensors with a multimeter. cts especailly

Is the loom correct, things like the tps can be wired incorrectly depending on the tps type used pf01 or pf09.

Is the fuel pressure correct?

 

Cheers lads. Keep the ideas coming as they can read this tomorrow then as I wont be working on it

 

www.bigturbo.co.uk

plenty of info, sensor values, wiring etc

 

That link is the bollocks by the looks of it, provided its not the map then it will be diagnosed/fixed within hours!

i wish all cars had this info available, would make my job much easier! :Cry:

 

Map sensor or cts

 

no

i had an issue with a friends cossie powered car, total ignition loss on engine, plenty of fuel with no warning.

was crank sensor, fixed at the pod whilst car was still on display! (Big up Matt Lewis )

 

It appears we have no power to the ecu. We have checked the ecu relay plug. And have found the following

Pin 30 (thick red and white wire) permanent live

Pin 86 (black wire) ignition live

Pin 85 (blue/yellow) earth with ignition off, live on ignition 2

Pin 87 (1 red wire and a black/blue wire) absolutely nothing with ignition on or off

Also we have a chopped brown/red wire coming off a purple relay plug and have no idea where it's supposed to go.

Any help on this would be appreciated

Cheers

 

Why was it sparking and fuelling then Mike with no power to Ecu? Strange! I didnt think with no power to ECU it would do either of those!

 

have a look here this may help you www.bigturbo.co.uk

 

i've got an idea. have a look at www.bigturbo.co.uk as there's a lot of good information on there about sensors etc

 

Have you considered looking on www.bigturbo.co.uk ?

 

It won't be the map, by your description it looks like it's doing it on all cylinders.

My money would be on the MAP sensor OR the CTS is not connected, verify not only the electrical connections but also the reference hose for the MAP.

There IS power to the ECU, else you would have no spark, the fuel pump would not run either, thus would equal to no fuel, assuming you have wired the pump as the OE did!

The purple relay I imagine is the standard TIMER relay from the original car, if so you can do away with this and use the SPST (Yellow) relay from the Cosworth setup.

Martin

 

Cheers. Been looking at that site for the pin outs.

Strange one. Im not there so cant say whats happening. The lads seem to think theres no power to the ECU, but as I keep saying, if there was no power then it would not spark or run the fuel pump.
Map sensor is brand new. Not sure over the CTS but it was off a running car so should be fine!

 

pin 20 is ecu live
the rst coolant temp sensor is a different scaling which causes over fuelling
have you used a cossie one
we can scale the maps for either not sure who's map you have

 

Im not sure which it has TBH Tony as it came in the cossie setup that Richard bought, but as it was from an apparant running car then Id assume a cossie one! Blue one isnt it? and yellow on the RST iirc?

 

have you got the cam and crank sensors wired correctly? Ie using the same loom and sensors as the running car had?
I usually use eec4 sensors that require the wires swapping round in the plugs!

 

All sensors were all still wired into the loom mate other than the cam(phase) sensor was cut so this had to be done. If the wires on that were incorrect would it cause it to not start?
Also something I wondered to rule out, is do the lugs on both crank and cam pulleys for the senors have to be bare metal? As the plates with the lugs on were powdercoated!

 

Yes if wires are wrong way round

 

out of interest as wanting to learn james, Why? Its fuelling and sparking. Will it be causing the spark to be firing out of order?

 

I don't know Lee tbh, but my plug broke yrs ago, changed it and it wouldn't start. Swapped the pins and it was perfect. Since then several on here have told me it makes no difference, but I've seen it with my own eyes

 

the phase sensor must be wired the correct way round

 

because it's a sensor, not a switch

 

Do the lugs being powdercoated make any difference or does the sensor still sense them as they pass powdercoated or not?

 

turn the engine over by hand with the ignition on, if it detects them the fuel pump should prime. (did on mine anyway) Who made the triggers are they set correctly?

 

If the cam sensors wired wrong then the injector timing will be majorly... majorly fucked, is the cam pulley properly aligned?

 

Im not sure guys im not there. Not sure who made this and that but as said, bought as a full kit off a running car.

 

i would have thought that the powdercoating could make a difference when you think how critical the gap is. at the very least you would probably have to close the gap a bit, or at least experiment with it.

get yourself an oscilloscope so that you can see what the sensors are doing.

 

Yes I am pretty sure that powercoating the CRANK pulley is not that good an idea, but the fact you have spark and fuel shows this to be working, as the CPS input provides this NOT the phase sensor!

The phase sensor, gapping along with it being timed correctly in relation to the engine, is massively important, it's used to provide SFI.

I am pretty sure if it's open circuit etc then the fueling will be running in "batch mode", which would explain the overfuelling.

Martin

 

I had a similar problem on my Vw twin cam turbo 2.0 16v engine i fitted Pectel super 8 injection on, for some strange reason that i never worked out why no.3 injector on the second rail every now and then used to jam open! quite dangerous as the cylinder filled with fuel in seconds.
I was using Weber beige 385cc disc type injectors at the time so changed to Bosch 380cc orange jobs and the problem went.
Have you tried disconnecting the fuel rail along with injectors aimed into jars and statically spraying the injectors with the ignition on and crank sensor aligned? both relays should click and the injectors should fire, no need to crank the engine just turn the crank by hand on its pulley.
When the injectors spray how much fuel comes out?