after getting a little side tracked and buying a mini to restore i have a question.

in the past, if i've had a car that is just way beyond restoration, i've reshelled with a second hand body and kept the identity if the car i am restoring. on the mini forum people are hung drawn and quartered for this, there are even people scouring ebay just looking for things to compain about.

what are the views of you guys?

 

my understanding of reshelling is, if you reshell a cosworth and use a sierra 1.6L shell your cosworth becomes a look-a-like, even if you transfer everything, because when you tell the insurance company what the reg is, it will come up as a 1.6L, if you swap the reg's over youre breaking the law, transfering the chassis no over is coloning (illegal)

but i might be wrong

 

only way to legally re shell a car is to use a unregistered bodyshell as a lot of people look upon they method your talking of as ringing the car. The mk1 fiesta world is shit hot on exposing previously 'rung' cars

 

The same as the law, that its ringing and iliegal

It does happen tho for genuine reasons like yours sounds, cant see why you cant keep the id of the second hand shell tho, unless youre restoring something who's value is in its identity and its originality, in which case I refer you back to it being ringing and ilegal

 

Just do it and keep it too yourself!

 

if you swap id from one shell to another previously registered shell, you are ringing it.

forums do tend to frown upon people breaking the law.... funny that

 

Loads of mini coopers and cooper s cars have been restored in this way, minis are very easy to do as tags are only screwed on it doesn't make it right though, but as long as correct year shell used cant really see a problem, these cars are old and if it's only way to keep them on the road then we have to accept it. Just don't hide the fact if selling it

 

Most mk1 and mk2 escorts have been rung. Minis and escorts are the worst cars for it!

Some idiot tried to sell me a "rep" rs2000 that was on an 1.1 log book. It was just a robbed rs2000 that had been rung. But how can you prove it when its numbers are all there?

 

Yeah,great idea.NOT

 

It is in the eyes of the law wrong but there's a LOT of double standards on here,I mean if say someone like Paul nyrs had a "re-shelled" 3dr or a newbie had the same thing there'd be a queue of arse lickers telling Paul how amazing he is but the same people telling the newbie he's a "master criminal" and should be locked in the tower of London and/or stoned to death.
I'd take a very good guess that the amount of people on here driving reshells or ringers with no idea would be staggering,they were easily being rung back in the 80's and 90's when the police actively looked for them then whereas now the cars are older than the average copper,how the fuck would he know where to look for the date stamps to prove authenticity etc?
To me,if you own the two cars,the cars aren't stolen and all your doing is swapping parts from one to another yet wish to retain your original I.d for insurance purposes etc who are you harming?would you prefer a mint shell with a bit of extra weight from the new numbers or a rotten genuine one?I know what my answer would be.

 

This ^

Well summed up

 

That's all very well and i know there are a lot of them about already but it's when you come to sell it that the problems are.Some poor cunt thinks he's buying a nice rot free car when in fact it's a base model with some RS bits on it.

Unless of course you are honest and sell it as a ringer in which case it won't be worth as much and unless you can provide evidence of work carried out a lot of people will be suspicious of it.And you'll get the heroes that are scouring the ads looking for dodgy cars to let the whole world know over the net.

 

Totally agree with this! There is absolutely no reason why a second hand shell should have its I.D. changed! If a car started life as a base model then it can't magically become a RS or whatever, even though the shells are largely the same. If you are hell bent on having RS on the log book then you need to buy a rust free RS shell or be prepared to restore it. Re-shelling into a new shell with a receipt from Ford doesn't really apply to the old cars now as clearly Ford will not have any body shells lying around any more lol!

 

I honestly didnt think it was illegal to change the ID from one car to another when you own both,

taken from directgov

Why would they give a example of where the VIN may have been changed because of replaing chassis shell etc. I am assuming the frames mean in bikes, it is the same view on bikes if the frame has been changed it is a 'ringing' no idea on bikes tbh

Not that I have ever done this, my old company did plently of shell changes as it was cheaper then metal work back then but these were using brand new shells from fords.

 

why not its only a shell! If he is doing it up and putting it back on the road I really can not see the problem! Far better than scraping it because of rot at the end of the day its only a few numbers on a shell that's the same as the next!

 

It's not as simple as that though.See my last post for an explanation of why not.

 

They tell you where to look because there are legal ways, such as by using a new shell from the manufacturer with a receipt , not applicable here tho.

There is no doubt at all that what the op suggests is outside of the law.

 

to be honest I do see it as that simple a shell is a shell if your swaping same for same its only the numbers that are different and I'd rather buy one with numbers swaped then one that's had all sorts of pannals changed and half the floor cut out and replaced

 

Well that's up to you.I'd rather buy a genuine car that's maybe had a bit of welding than some home built mongrel that could well be someone else's pride and joy that's been stolen and rung.

Each to their own and all that

 

we are not talking about stolen shells that's a different matter and a shell that's had bits cut out all over the place a welded in by some guy in his garage can just as easy be called a mongrel lol

 

But we could be talking about stolen shells,if it's been rung then you never know what you have.

Although you may call a restored car a mongrel at least it would still be a genuine car and not an illegal replica.

Like i say,each to their own and that.I bet there's a few on here with ringers that don't even know about it

 

i guess it's a bit like these people that do cut'n'shut, they dont give a shit really, as long as they make money out of it

 

you are talking about a totally different thing the post is about a guy re shelling a rotten mini he is doing up nothing to do with stolen shells or cut and shuts!

 

So would I, and if all you are interested in is condition then you could keep the Id of the good donor shell

However if you are attempting to retain its commercial value by purporting that it's something it isn't by swapping the numbers then you are illegally ringing

 

just get a new shell for the mini, you can still get them and bolt the thing on, nothing wrong with it then as the chassis is essentially the same.
in respect to an rs, it's mainly a base shell with other bits stuck on, except for transmission differences in some.
the value is in the title not the mechanics really, odd really, Ford for instance put some bits together as a package and call it an RS, man in a shed gets the same parts and does exactly the same job and somehow is worth less. it's all about the title not the product.
it is illegal to do as suggested though in the OP, like for like titled shells shouldn't cause much disturbance in the force though.

i had to take my xr2 to a vic test once over, i stamped a blank vin plate with the same details as this became significantly damaged in an impact and had to cut out and weld back in the floor plate, they didn't bat an eyelid. i suppose they could see panels were replaced on the front and footwells so put two and two together. would have been easy to put a ringer together though.

 

i would say that if you're doing it to keep for yourself, then its fine. but if you are doing it to sell and make a profit on, then don't bother, because this is the internet and rumours get around

yes it seems like its outside of the law, but who hasn't ever broken a law before? it'd take someone petty to go to the police just to ruin your day on this...

 

Is where is it in UK law that forbids altering the VIN? thats what I was getting at. My old company was contacted about 4 times that I know off to restamp shells that werent new or un stamped.

 

my mate sells mk2 escort ids most old rally cars have been throw a few shells with same id

 

They made it illegal to swap IDs between cars because it's too easy to write off your own car and then steal an identical one and replace its ID with yours. Then it is easy to sell yours as a good one and no-one can trace that it's actually a stolen car. This isn't much of an issue with our cars these days as it isn't easy to steal one to order. On current model cars it is pretty easy to find one the same to ring. The downside of this law is that it's also impossible to reshell a car with a second hand shell and keep the original ID. You might be able to keep the original ID under the points scheme but you still need receipted proof of where the shell came from.

 

Im not sure what you're getting at?

Cars can be allocated a new vin, can have their vin restamped etc etc

You cannot swap the vin from one car to another

 

I have been lead to believe the dvla will be cracking down on this quite heavily and don't facing buying something that will end up in the crusher

 

Right then, I'm off to find me a mint base model 2 door mk1 Cortina and a rotten lotus Cortina with I.D. should make myself a tidy Ł10k swapping all.the parts over and selling it as genuine

 

That happens all the time though? Your naive if you think it doesn't happen. People have made Ł000's out of it.

 

Some interesting replies but it won't stop it happening and IMO I'm of the school that you buy on condition not originality,I personally couldn't care less if it's a 1.1 mint shell with Rs bits on it and a logbook to match rather than a historically correct crock of shite 1987 rotten Rs.
Each to their own though and I stand by my statement above,the Internet forgives it's favourites and villifies unknowns.
Say fuck all and get it done!!!!

 

Where does it state in uk law then you cannoth move the vin from one chassis to another then? ha, not having a dig pal just asking, I did have a look yesterday and US forbid you to change the VIN but couldnt find anything in the uk.

'ringing' is usually thought of as swapping a stright cars ID onto a stolen car/chassis but as above this isnt always the case, I thought if you own both cars if itsnt against the law to swap the vins over, at worse I can see it coming under the DVLA SVA rebuilt vehicle.

 

It does yes, I cant show you where without spending loads of time doing it but just phone the DVLA and ask

The VIN isnt anything to do with ownership, its the ID of the chassis

 

If you use a 1.1 bonus shell to re-shell a rs turbo then it must retain original bonus I.D., simple as that! Anyway there ARE differences in shells if you know what you are looking for

 

Cant see it being an issue if you keep the original ID. Why would you want to change the ID over?

If you fit RS bits to a mint lesser model then why cant you keep it registeredas the lesser model? If it really is mint then it wont put me off.

 

totally agree!

 

VIN = Vehicle Identification Number. It applies to the chassis or monocoque and should not be moved from one car to another. Just because we know that some people do, doesn't make it legal or "right".

It's a bit like Trigger and his broom. Had it for years and it's had 17 new heads and 14 new handles, but it is still the same broom.