smiley111

Hi I'm new to this forun but from what I've seen on here everyone seems very helpful and knowledgeable so I'm hoping I may be able to make some progress in getting my 2004 mondeo tdci running!

Problems started suddenly one morning when the car would only start and run at some 500 rpm and extremely rough, Initially the injectors were removed ready to be sent for testing, However then my mechanic noticed the Inlet camshaft holding bolts had seemed to of come loose, we tightened the bolts and tried to start the car, absolutely nothing, not even 5oo rpm as before. lifted the cover again to find the inlet cam had come loose again. After trawling the net i realised the inlet cam had jumped on the timing chain. hence i decided to buy another bare engine. (id heard it running so knew it was ok)

New engine fitted doesn't start ( will run when easy start sprayed continuously down the inlet) I used all the injectors, fuel pump, sensors, etc from the old engine. Diagnostics are not showing any codes so I'm a bit stuck! also no warning lights on dash.

My mind now is wondering why the old engine didin't run after the cam was tightened (all be it it would of been exceptionally rough as before but it didn't run at all) I wonder if whatever else has gone wrong went wrong at that point? Rather than being anything related to the new engine. I'm told the injectors went back in the pots they came out of. Can taking injectors out and putting them back in create any problems?

I've also tried connecting up an injector whilst they are out of the pots to see if anything is coming out of them, There isn't. I'm thinking I should of been able to see something? if things with the fueling were correct as there is no wasy the car itself would know the injector was not actually in the pot?
Also Tried it with the leak of pipe reomved and fuel does drip out teh hole when cranking, I'm assuming dripping is about right. Also i cant see where the fuel would come out of the injector, when the injector works correctly does it basically push out the very end creating a gap for the fuel to come out of?

Fuel pressure seems good, timing seems ok, even if timing was 180 degree out im thinking the injectors should still be firing in fuel all be it at the wrong time

Sorry this is such an essay but i've tried to cover off everything, Any thoughts would be greatfully received.

Thanks Miles

GVK.

First things first, has the fuel been primed by a hand pump, you'll have a job starting it if it hasn't.

What is the fuel pressure on cranking? Should be around 250bar to start.

If you have access to live data try disconnect injector multiplugs and IMV (brown plug on pump) and crank it, should show at least 1050bar (1600 bar on good pump/injectors)

Have you tried gravity feeding the pump in case the transfer pump has failed or to rule out any other low-pressure system issues? I would expect glo-plug light to flash when trying to start with fuel pressure issues.

Guy I work with fitted a new engine in a TDCI Transit and it wouldn't start - turned out timing was out, once that was sorted it fired up.

RsS2daz

as above make sure when cranking you have at least 240 bar if you havent the ecu will not even turn the injectors on electronically, removing and fitting common rail injectors are very easy to block especially delphi injectors you have in the mondeo, you have to be so clean, making sure no dirt goes into the inlet of injector, other wise they will become blocked or have very high backleaks, which would causee bad starting or no starting, due to the pressure being lost via the backleaks, i overhaul delphi common rail injectors as my job, there is a 2mm valve in diamater that has to move micron in miliseconds, any dirt or debrais droped in the inlet of injector will seize that valve within seconds upon fitting, best of to check the fuel pressure while cranking, if it is not near 240 bar i would get the injectors out and get them tested, we can do them at my work www.colfuel.co.uk we have all the proper equipment to overhaul and put through a thorough test that at the end will give you a new 16 digit c2i code that you will have to interpret into the cars ecu via a diagnostic tool. This code gives optimum performance and best mpg and generally better driven engine.

Hope this helps

Kind regards

Daryl

smiley111

Hi Thanks for your response, I'm not sure how the mechanic primed it, We did try tow starting it etc and with my messing around with the pipes to the injectors fuel does come out if one is left loose and its cranked over so i sort of ruled out it being a priming issue? I also thought the glow plug light would show if fuel pressure issue,
I'm only a relatively competent DIYer and have only got some generic software that seems to suggest it can do live data, I'll have to try and see if it will show fuel pressure.
I think maybe i do need to double check the timing, although would that stop the injectors from firing fuel completely? I know it may not run but is the ecu clever enough to compare between the crank sensor and the cam sensor and stop fuelling if these are too far out, ultimately it ran with the timing out before, maybe only a few teeth, hence causing the damage ( had a look at a youtube clip so i understand how the injector works and that i would be able to see the fuel being squirted).

similarly from both your comments clearly i need to somehow check the fuel pressure

Thanks Miles

GVK.

You shouldn't need to tow it if it's primed properly. I have never needed to personally.

Not 100% sure on yours, but in some cases, the PCM can compare CMP/CPS (cam/crank) as 'engine sync'.

Cranking it with pipes loose will introduce air and is not advised on common rail.

Would expect there to be errors in the PCM with it not starting due to fuel pressure issues.

This PDF gives a lot of good info http://www.fordmondeo.org/threadatta...dci_faults.pdf

smiley111

Thanks for that, useful information

Do you know what is the truth regarding the injectors and coding, I just wonder if the mechanic did put the injectors in the wrong pots would they still fire fuel or does the ecu simply not send the signal to fire the injector if the ecu somehow cant "see" the injector that it is expecting? Could i potentially try connecting up 1 injector to each of the 4 possible connectors and seeing if it squirts or could this mess up the ecu so that i would definately have to have it recoded, (although mechanic swears they all in right place!)

I have a hunch that something that is causing this non starting (i now believe basic problem is no fuel being squirted from injector) is due to something going wrong even before the engine was changed, but at that stage all that had been done whilst the old engine was in was to take out the injectors and put them back in again, after realising the cam carrier failure and reason for this. I did see seomeone say that the ecu can "loose the injectors" due to the timing having gone out. seems to be alot of conflicting information out there! (i'm starting to think that even injectors that are not coded to the ecu would probably still enable the car to start but just run incredibly bad..)

GVK.

Never tried it personally, but I believe if you run an uncoded injector, you may get excess diesel knock and maybe smoke. It would still run. The code (correction factor) basically tunes the pilot injection which reduces diesel knock.

Without knowing what fuel pressure etc you have it's difficult to diagnose. You can guess all day long.

smiley111

A bit of an update, when i first measured the fuel pressure with the generic diagnostic tool i seemed to get 500bar which decreased to say 150 bar by the time i stopped cranking it, I tried disconnecting the brown plug on the pump and that gave a steady 1800 bar whilst cranking, i then coneected a fuel supply direct to the pump to eliminate blocked filter leaky lines etc, it seems to be about 350bar constant when cranking, So im believeing the fuel pressure to be ok. (the return pipe from the pump to the tank i just left without having the fuel filter connected, just let the fuel go into a container, the fuel in my pint auxillary container was being pretty much used and collected by the other container whilst cranking for maybe 20 seconds, I'm guessing that about normal as the fuel is continually circulating?)

I've checked the valve timing and all seems ok, The problem is definately the injectors are not firing for whatever reason, All 4 don't fire so i have to assume its not 4 fault injectors as they were fine prior to changing the engine,

All wires and sensors appear ok, Again there appear to be no fault codes, I was thinking of replacing the cam position sensor as they are only £20.

I was wondering if the continual connection and disconnection of the battery could of made an ecu not recognise the key or something? and hence somehow is immobilised? tried both keys no joy,

Begining to wonder what to do next!!

No fault codes are appearing, THe engine management light is staying on whilst cranking (can't remember if it always used to) the glow plug light is not on.

I'm stuck!!