I am considering moving up from greens and stage 3 to greys and a new chip but some tuners say you must wire ring your engine. Just wondering if peeps do this or not as it seems a big job and it may change my mind from moving

 

Not needed nowdays - gasket technology has moved on since Group A times

 

So what gasket would you suggest with greys etc.?

 

If the engine is out then you could go for a multi-layer but you are adviced to have both the head and block decked.

I ran a grp A gasket on greys and then Siemens up to 440bhp and after inspection was absolutely fine

 

ive ran greys on a t4 running 2bar on a grp a

 

It deff makes the seal stronger but as said an old school way of doing it, and you can get wrc spec multi layer gaskets for and the 150 mark now!!


I've gone wrc on mine but as said people have run alot of power thru a group a with no problems, personal preference really!! My block was already long studded thou which is also why I went wrc.

 

The "group a" will be fine, with anything that the greys can do power wise, and is vastly superior to a metal gasket in sealing with less than perfect surfaces, I'm on greys and still use a group a despite block and head having just been machined, personally wouldn't put a metal one on even if free.
tabetha

 

Just out of interest why wouldent u use a metal one they are far better and stronger than others and all this block and head decking dose get over hyped it dosent have to be done every time if the too surface are flat then it will be fine ok u do have to pay a little more attention to the head as its alloy. We only have metal ones in the truck world and ive chaged loads never have a problem really with mateing surfaces after they have been given a good clean with a scotch bright pad on a die grinder and a good check over

 

is a stanard 4x4 head gasket not the same as a grp a iteam ????

remember being told this years ago

 

Small turbo escos one is the best of the bunch other than the metal ones which as tabetha mentions are potentially an issue if the surfaces arent flat as they have less give in them.

 

Thanks everyone, I am already running with a Grp A gasket so it makes the transition to greys plus chip real easy. I read on here somewhere that the general opinion as to which stage to go for was greys plus chip (I'm thinking closed loop as well) but then live mapped which made it a real sweet car to drive, is that so?

 

I assume you are on a T34 if you are "stage 3" at the moment?
If so what exhaust housing are you on?

My T34 with a .48 housing doesnt lean out at any point on greens no matter how much boost I run with it, so I would gain NOTHING from greys on my setup for example, literally not even one horsepower as there is nowhere the greens cant manage anyway.

 

Thats what I have is T34 with.48. NMS who wrote the chip said 1.6 bar which is about 23.5 psi. So mine peaks at 25/26 and runs at 23psi. Guess I was listening to them wot knows.

 

You wont be able to hold anymore boost than you are now really mate 23 at the top end is pretty much it on that turbo, you'll see a brief spike of a few psi more, but that wont require larger injectors.

 

Don't waste your money on closed loop, I have this facility on my ecu, but don't use it, if it is mapped correctly then the gain will be zero, if you were running a cat then that is a different matter.
I was getting 40+ mpg on a run as I call it, but that wasn't motorway or anything involved going through the centre of a major city and only about 10 miles of motorway at a steady speed.
CL is way over hyped imo, it's a simple flick of a switch to use mine, I never bother, bit like the massively over hyped coilpack, if there are no issues with misfires under boost etc caused by the old fashioned ignition then there is no "gain" to be had.
Beware of greens they can vary a lot, my last set of dark greens 0 280 150 803's were at 80% duty at around 300 bhp, on the std rail pressure 3.5 bar, these had just been cleaned so were the lowest cc/min you should get, used ones are a bit higher.
A live map IF done on the rollers would get the best, as this way any combo of speed/load can be held, unlike road mapping, I would not bother with road mapping personally.
Just my opinions.
tabetha

 

A truck engine is a little different, the poor old YB blocks, 200 included wobble like jelly in use, I suspect the old diesel blocks are a huge amount more rigid, so a "flexy" gasket won't be fatigue prone like a metal, I've used metal gaskets on other cars, not through choice though.
I just can't see the point of using a metal one which is more likely to have sealing issues than a composite fibrous gasket that is less likely to have issues, where the boost is easily coped with via a fibrous gasket this would be my choice.
tabetha

 

But would be wrong if u was going for big power

 

so correct me if I'm wrong Tab, I seem to be reading that there is no advantage going into grays plus chip unless you start changing the Turbo output. Fitting of the grays would seem that they are more capable of delivering more fuel if you change the chip and have reached maximum duty cycle on the greens by way of increasing boost.

I bought the chip, greens etc. from NMS and have been very pleased with it except I have always thought the engine was a little retarded before it went into boost i.e. lower revs and my fuel consumption is not great so I have never had the vehicle life mapped mainly because the nearest four-wheel-drive dyno is 300 clicks away from me and 1300 clicks the other direction. Costs also being a factor as the one guy wanted $2500 to live map it and then the worry is that "do they know what they're doing on a car they've never worked on" there are only a handful of Cosworth's in Western Canada. Does I live map really make that big difference to the performance and miles per gallon? I'm guessing that when Carl wrote the chip he was probably a little conservative on the amount timing advance he put in as he was dealing with the gasoline rating that he was not familiar with being the other side of the world.

 

Carl with his experience and knowledge would have had to err on the side of caution, compared to a live subject in front of him, a live map can make a hell of a difference, but he is a cnut to want £1500 for it, and I thought msd were a piss take with £500!!
You cannot unless by spectacular chance and good luck safely extract every ounce of power from a individual engine, unless the mapping is being done on that engine, as things need to looked out for, on cossies mainly leaning out and det.
The mapper doesn't at all need to be experienced with cossies, engines work the same, fuel spark big bang power.
If you can access the fuel table you can watch the position and fuelling as you drive, mine for example uses around 35% less fuel at 35mph in 4th instead of 5th, due to the air speed going into the engine being higher and promoting better mixing and effeciency, try to keep the engine above around 2000rpm and you can gain fuel wise even if it means dropping a gear to do so.
Every car is different though, I have a slightly ported head, the ends of the inlet tracts are modified as I wanted, but at low air speeds/rpm this can make it use more fuel than a unmodified one, so swings and roundabouts as they say.
With mapping prices like that look around at using a different ecu that a local/ish tuner uses, mapping is also different from one to another, so speak to others who've used the mapper, but £1500 is a serious piss take, I pay £280 for THREE maps.
I gained 140 miles per tank with same driving, driveability was light years ahead of the chips I used, msd ggr,ea, must say GGR was way above the others though.
tabetha

 

Depends on your definition of big power, may running 500+ been using group a for years, inc a 500+ 2wd that has done over 40,000 miles on it, inc every month doing the ring.
tabetha

 

My group a started weaping coolant between the head and block and pressurising with 350 bhp and 26 psi after 3 years my wrc has done 4 years with no probs at 500 bhp and 36 psi! why take the chance when a metal one is far stronger and superior but i guess its each to there own at the end of the day

 

Tabetha, from what you said there seems to be a lot more to get out of my current setup so I am looking at mapping it myself (don't laugh) as I can purchase an emulator, burner etc. locally and my "soon to be son in law" had a small business doing engine mapping but his business partner left, so he knows what to do but we need the software for Weber Marelli's. Any suggestions?