Hi all, hopefully this is THE forum to ask

Do you guys know what kind kind of power/torque figures these cars "really" had?

on various websites etc.. a Grp A Escort has 300hp and 400nm, and a WRC around 320hp and 500nm. But these numbers must be way to low, I saw an ad in
"rallycarsforsale" and this particular Escort WRC had 340hp and 612nm........, same goes for the Focus WRC, M-Sport web site, says 300(max FIA) and 550nm. Rumors say 800nm+...

 

there are many rumors about, alot of people on here will tell you they just couldnt get that type of hp/tq but its always higher than what is officially published.

 

And there's a big difference what fuel is used. Back in the good old days there was Fina which gave 30+ more bhp and 100Nm more torque than regular pump fuel.

 

wrc escorts a very good engine will make 520 lbft torque and 320-325 bhp no more

 

Thanks for all answers.


must be awesome to drive a real works rallycar, with all this low down torque.

 

how would you go about Achieving the above power and torque figure jim?

 

10-11:1 compression ratio. A IHI turbo at around 38psi at 3000rpm, high quality fuel and very careful mapping!

The 300bhp comes early in the rev range and at the top of the rev range still has 300bhp. This is due to the boost levels, 38psi asap and 7-9psi at 7000rpm.

The restrictor is the problem, if you run too much boost the post restrictor depression gets too high and the turbo will, in short, die

Iirc down to the turbo overspending trying to suck through more air than possible

 

I told you EXACTLY the same thing yesterday .

 

Group A Escorts ran about 300bhp at 2.8bar and 320bhp at 3bar of boost. Got these figures from someone who ran an ex-works car, so you can trust in that.

 

Restricted engines are so weird, the power curve is almost exactly flat and the torque just drops off linearly with RPM.

Its mental they are as fast as they are considering the horrible shape, but obviously correct gearing is very important.

520lbft in first off the line on a full bore launch must be pretty epic though, would love to experience it!

 

They only maintain peak boost for a few hundred rpm though, and then the boost just totally dies as revs increase, they lose a psi every couple of hundred rpm basically.

 

j1mbo, have you got a graph showing BHP / Torque / Boost, so people can see what I mean?

Such a weird graph to look at if you are used to a GT30 YB or whatever!

 

Not quite,

I'll show you a graph as chip also wants one I'll upload tonight guys. The graph I'll show you is what went into juhah kannkunan wrc escort when Mark jasper had it

Awesome engine. Give me till tonight

 

Nice one

 

Can't wait mate, but I was refering to gr.A which is less impressive than WRC !

 

here we are

 

Ps ment to say, the dyno would not hold any more torque that low, it would pull that boost at 3000rpm and lower.

After a word with the old fella he said 520-530lbft was possible from this at higher boost levels! And has been seen before

 

Very impressive.

 

Totally bizzare graph, literally almost flat power curve and a totally horrific shape to the torque curve, just plumetting the moment revs rise.

I'd hate to have an engine like that! So glad restrictors arent part of the MOT, lol

Its amazing how quick the cars manage to be in spite of that!

 

At what revs would you change gear Chip ?. Thought the idea of Torque was to kick you in the back on gear change. Change at 6k & the car would stop in a high wind .

 

I believe they typically change at about 5K but obivously if pulling out of a corner and not wanting to change gear and unsettle the car they hold on longer.

 

"horses for courses" i would say guys !

 

Correct, get that 300bhp as early as possible and hold on as long as possible, so be in the wrong gear or not want to change up you have the same power!

 

Boys bear in mind the GpA restrictor started at 40mm, then dropped to 38, then 36 and finally 34mm. 40mm and the motor would still rev to well past 7000.

Horses for course but what year horse, eh?

 

The 38mm engines used to rev to 8500 rpm

 

You are 100% right John ! But I find it easier (and most people do it that way) to just mention the restrictor size rather than the year !

 

Interesting thread.

How would an engine of Grp A / WRC spec compare to a Stage 3 in terms of driveability, power delivery, power & torque graphs etc? I'm just wondering why people don't commonly have their YB's specced in Grp A / WRC configurations if their torque figures are so impressive?

 

Because it costs a fortune to do it correctly. Stage 3 is only a few hundred £. I'd imagine proper group a spec is well over £15K once you factor in the ALS system etc.

 

And the fuel, you have to use good fuel not pump

 

So its simply a case of money?

I've always fancied a Grp A spec'd road car - bullet proof engine and mechanicals, but road car looks and comfort.

 

Well it really depends on the engine. Group A is used for all and nothing those days. Real group A engines were built by Mountune with expensive parts and needed rebuild a lot more often than you might think. On the other hand you find the so called "clubman" group A engines which are just uprated engines with driving ability you find on rally engines (lot of torque mid-range and fast response). These are much more reliable.

 

there is a car on ebay at the moment with a tommy field engine the guy is saying that is 352bhp and late 500lb torque make of it what you will but there the figures tommy throws his motors out at

 

have a gpa escort here in norway with a field engine. when a emaild field i got to know that in 2002 the engine was buildt, and produced 309 hp and 545 nm, running on elf turbo max fuel-