LOL, im i not allowed to post
LOL, im i not allowed to post
Oh dear this is getting very sad 
I just asked for a chance to reply to STU's and only STU's post from my turbo thread and its been deleted.
This place sucks if you have issues with MSD
Steve
I just asked for a chance to reply to STU's and only STU's post from my turbo thread and its been deleted.
This place sucks if you have issues with MSD
Steve
PassionFords Creator
iTrader: (12)
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 28,824
Likes: 95
From: Blackpool, UK Destination: Rev limiter
PassionFords Creator
iTrader: (12)
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 28,824
Likes: 95
From: Blackpool, UK Destination: Rev limiter
This forum is not an outlet for people to argue mate, the bandwith and upkeep of this forum costs thousands. If you wish to use it in such a manner then you will have to pay to do so. However, if you wish to chat about cars in general you can do so freely. That does not seem so shocking to me!
Last edited by Stu @ M Developments; Jun 18, 2009 at 02:49 PM.
Having it behind closed doors also keeps the likes of google out of course, and I doubt IB want arguments to be presented to the search engines.
If arguments interest you then you can pay a nominal fee to read them, if they dont interest you enough to part with a bit of money then surely they dont interest you enough to let it bother you so much you post about it?
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PassionFords Creator
iTrader: (12)
Joined: May 2003
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From: Blackpool, UK Destination: Rev limiter
You gave your opinion and I gave mine. If you want to reply feel free.
Apologies that was about a different car, I scrolled back further and found this post, which doesnt seem to be anything that wouldnt be allowed in GD either, so here it is for you to comment if this is the one you meant Steve?
Edited to include the quotes of yours that Stu replied to as it didnt read properly without them.
Originally Posted by Stu @ MSD
You previous to this had quite a few digs at my company here on PF and to people in person saying that your car was slower now it had been setup by me. Upon further investigation by me, it transpired, (Only after I insisted on more info. I can find the link if required), that it was missing TEN pounds of boost since I gave it you back. Of course it was slower, but you didn't tell anyone that and you were in my opinion just spreading muck for reasons unbeknown to me. I thought we parted on good terms after your custom map day and I even gave you finance on parts your couldnt afford to buy on the day having never even met you before! next thing I know your telling all and sundry your problems are all down to me!
Anyway,
We got to duiscussing your missing boost and as you insisted you had no leaks etc I personally advised you to remove the pipe from the actuator and carefully see what boost it ran, I presumed you had done this as you later booked it in for me to look at and tweak some cold running mapping issues your weren't happy with. You dropped her off and made you a brew, we discussed the options and I gave you a lift to the train station.
Really? Is that honestly what you think?
We charge Ł45PH here so I think you paid around 5hrs labour which seems sensible.
When you brought the car in for mapping we did the usual initial tests including a full 35psi intake system pressure test. That takes around 30mins all in all.
We then put all the emulation and monitoring gear on which takes the best part of an hour. Once complete we took it for a test drive. We found that we could not get boost over 21psi so we adjusted amal maps and when that had no effect we fitted a bleed valve and tested again, still no change.
Next we removed the pipe from the actuator and ran it with nothing at all. Anyone who knows these systems will tell you to expect anything upwards of 50psi when you do this with a T34. Yours ran 23. We had gained 1psi. This means the turbo has got problems. We also discovered that the fuel pump voltage was very low as was the ECU voltage. (very low 10s! )
Incidentally, this pipe off job is the exact same test i had already advised you to do when you were on the phone and you implied it was all to do with our chip or setup and you weren't happy with 28mpg anyway so wanted to bring it up to me. I was happy for you to do this and just presumed you had done my test as advised as par for the course. You later, during a call admitted you had ignored my advice about this test.
Anyway...
We called you and advised that we had no boost and bad voltages and you told us to call it a day at that as you couldn't afford to proceed any further, so we took all the emulation and monitoring equipment off your car and returned the car back to standard so it could leave.
You then PM'd Will on here late at night as we had no method of contacting you during the day as you don't have a mobile phone and wanted us to only contact you in the evenings (After we have closed sadly so couldn't) and asked Will if we could take the turbo off and examine it for any obvious faults.
Will agreed and we totally removed the turbo in order to inspect the waste gate area properly. However, upon finding it to not be exhibiting any of the usual problems we had expected to see such as large cracks or visually bad waste gate seating we advised it be returned to a turbo specialist with a VSR to check it under speed and pressure or you send us another turbo to fit. (Around the same time you made this topic looking for one to send us).
You finally failed to procure one and verbally declined repair or replacement and thus had to pay labour to remove and refit the turbo with no change to the turbo or solution to the problem. Annoying I agree but hardly my fault.
In the meantime, Will discovered a very badly crimped ring terminal on the fuel pump you rewired yourself. When this was rectified the current supply increased as did the voltage at the pump. One problem fixed. The pump is back at 13.6v.
Yes, as the in depth data logging printout we gave you shows very clearly, the ECU voltage at high revs is down to low 10 volts. (10.2v IIRC) This isn't just low, its dangerously low. This meant we could not do any mapping on your car either. We advised you that your loom is 20 years old and that we see this issue week in week out and you may as well just replace the loom as opposed to try and isolate which part of the loom is casing the issues although i suspected it to be the fusible links which i explained on your car with you in person.
Have you / he checked the voltage at 6000rpm with lights on and 2.2 bar of boost? I could find you 13v at idle mate no problem, the problem comes with current draw. Im willing to bet you haven't tried this at all but hope Im wrong.
With regards the boost he has found, I expect you have just put a bigger actuator on and preloaded it up so the wastegate has more tension, thus forcing any badly aligned parts to seal against the turbine housing harder than before. This is very bad practice indeed and should be avoided at all costs, especially if teh preload used is excessive. That -31 lifted at 14psi input pressure when we tested it, that is more than adequate for the TIP you are running on that conversion and with pipe off would have seen an easy 50+psi had the turbo been in good condition. When we diagnose a turbo as faulty we just replace then mate, we dont bodge them.
It hasn't upset me or my ego in the slightest mate. What upsets me is you actually stated on here that we were unwilling or unable to fix your turbocharger and charged you Ł250+ to fix a ring terminal. Which is absolute rubbish and you, and now everyone else knows it.
Anyway,
We got to duiscussing your missing boost and as you insisted you had no leaks etc I personally advised you to remove the pipe from the actuator and carefully see what boost it ran, I presumed you had done this as you later booked it in for me to look at and tweak some cold running mapping issues your weren't happy with. You dropped her off and made you a brew, we discussed the options and I gave you a lift to the train station.
So I collected my car, paid you Ł258.75 and it was no different, except you replaced a ring terminal on my earth wire to the fuel pump.
Really? Is that honestly what you think?
We charge Ł45PH here so I think you paid around 5hrs labour which seems sensible.
When you brought the car in for mapping we did the usual initial tests including a full 35psi intake system pressure test. That takes around 30mins all in all.
We then put all the emulation and monitoring gear on which takes the best part of an hour. Once complete we took it for a test drive. We found that we could not get boost over 21psi so we adjusted amal maps and when that had no effect we fitted a bleed valve and tested again, still no change.
Next we removed the pipe from the actuator and ran it with nothing at all. Anyone who knows these systems will tell you to expect anything upwards of 50psi when you do this with a T34. Yours ran 23. We had gained 1psi. This means the turbo has got problems. We also discovered that the fuel pump voltage was very low as was the ECU voltage. (very low 10s! )
Incidentally, this pipe off job is the exact same test i had already advised you to do when you were on the phone and you implied it was all to do with our chip or setup and you weren't happy with 28mpg anyway so wanted to bring it up to me. I was happy for you to do this and just presumed you had done my test as advised as par for the course. You later, during a call admitted you had ignored my advice about this test.
Anyway...
We called you and advised that we had no boost and bad voltages and you told us to call it a day at that as you couldn't afford to proceed any further, so we took all the emulation and monitoring equipment off your car and returned the car back to standard so it could leave.
You then PM'd Will on here late at night as we had no method of contacting you during the day as you don't have a mobile phone and wanted us to only contact you in the evenings (After we have closed sadly so couldn't) and asked Will if we could take the turbo off and examine it for any obvious faults.
Will agreed and we totally removed the turbo in order to inspect the waste gate area properly. However, upon finding it to not be exhibiting any of the usual problems we had expected to see such as large cracks or visually bad waste gate seating we advised it be returned to a turbo specialist with a VSR to check it under speed and pressure or you send us another turbo to fit. (Around the same time you made this topic looking for one to send us).
You finally failed to procure one and verbally declined repair or replacement and thus had to pay labour to remove and refit the turbo with no change to the turbo or solution to the problem. Annoying I agree but hardly my fault.
In the meantime, Will discovered a very badly crimped ring terminal on the fuel pump you rewired yourself. When this was rectified the current supply increased as did the voltage at the pump. One problem fixed. The pump is back at 13.6v.
You also highlighted an ecu voltage problem and an ecu earth fault being 2ohms this was not apparent when you first had it, you recomended i have it sorted by an auto electrician.
I took it to a turbo specialist as you advised who rectified the ecu voltage fault and boost issue, the 2 ohm earth resistance issue is in acceptable tolerances apparently.
With regards the boost he has found, I expect you have just put a bigger actuator on and preloaded it up so the wastegate has more tension, thus forcing any badly aligned parts to seal against the turbine housing harder than before. This is very bad practice indeed and should be avoided at all costs, especially if teh preload used is excessive. That -31 lifted at 14psi input pressure when we tested it, that is more than adequate for the TIP you are running on that conversion and with pipe off would have seen an easy 50+psi had the turbo been in good condition. When we diagnose a turbo as faulty we just replace then mate, we dont bodge them.
I am sorry that doing what you have advised me to do has upset your ego.
Edited to include the quotes of yours that Stu replied to as it didnt read properly without them.
Last edited by Chip; Jun 18, 2009 at 03:07 PM.
Will i be able to quote Stu's answer's ?
Steve
PassionFords Creator
iTrader: (12)
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 28,824
Likes: 95
From: Blackpool, UK Destination: Rev limiter
OK, for the last time, if you wish to argue your point do it in the correct forum or do it on another forum that allows such things and I will join there for you instead.
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