General Car Related Discussion. To discuss anything that is related to cars and automotive technology that doesnt naturally fit into another forum catagory.

VAG Techies....Possible Consequences of topping up a PD engine with non PD oil

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Sep 24, 2008 | 12:44 PM
  #1  
Lee_R21Turbo's Avatar
Lee_R21Turbo
Thread Starter
PassionFord Post Whore!!
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,715
Likes: 0
From: Liverpool :o)
Default VAG Techies....Possible Consequences of topping up a PD engine with non PD oil

Is it anything to worry about - a mate of mine topped their 130PD engine up with 2 litres of 15/40 Standard Diesel oil.

Reply
Old Sep 24, 2008 | 01:22 PM
  #2  
dunketh's Avatar
dunketh
Chief Iron Oxide Farmer.
 
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,319
Likes: 0
From: Portland
Default

Couldnt you drain the lot and refil with PD oil - then after a few hundred miles drain it again and refil?
Thus using the original fill as a flush so to speak?

Sorry, I dont even know what 'PD' oil is. Its just what I'd do if I stuck the wrong oil in something (admittedly less advanced as I only ever own old crap cars).
Reply
Old Sep 24, 2008 | 01:25 PM
  #3  
St3V3_C's Avatar
St3V3_C
PassionFord Post Whore!!
20 Year Member
Liked
Loved
 
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 9,608
Likes: 45
From: Bristol
Default

Never mind that, how the fook is 2 ltrs a 'top up' ?

Reply
Old Sep 24, 2008 | 01:28 PM
  #4  
gil's Avatar
gil
Too many posts.. I need a life!!
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 567
Likes: 0
From: berkshire
Default

Originally Posted by St3V3_C
Never mind that, how the fook is 2 ltrs a 'top up' ?

lmfao..........your right, would be more concerned about how much oil its using
Reply
Old Sep 24, 2008 | 01:29 PM
  #5  
Lee_R21Turbo's Avatar
Lee_R21Turbo
Thread Starter
PassionFord Post Whore!!
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,715
Likes: 0
From: Liverpool :o)
Default

Originally Posted by St3V3_C
Never mind that, how the fook is 2 ltrs a 'top up' ?

Believe me.....dont even go there!! LOL!
Reply
Old Sep 24, 2008 | 02:39 PM
  #6  
dojj's Avatar
dojj
Resident Wrestling Legend
20 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (3)
 
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 50,018
Likes: 259
From: Little India
Default

at least he didn't top it up into the windscreen washer bottle like one of my neighbours
Reply
Old Sep 24, 2008 | 02:44 PM
  #7  
It's Czech Mate's Avatar
It's Czech Mate
............
 
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 12,970
Likes: 103
From: West Mids
Default

We have about twenty 07/08 plate passats at work....virtually ALL of them have used loads of oil and they regularly get the oil light coming on......all are under 12k miles too!

Whats the score with them?
Reply

Trending Topics

Old Sep 24, 2008 | 02:49 PM
  #8  
Lee_R21Turbo's Avatar
Lee_R21Turbo
Thread Starter
PassionFord Post Whore!!
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,715
Likes: 0
From: Liverpool :o)
Default

I believe its a commonly known fact that the newer PD engines do use oil - I believe it even says it in the handbooks!!!
Reply
Old Sep 24, 2008 | 02:51 PM
  #9  
It's Czech Mate's Avatar
It's Czech Mate
............
 
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 12,970
Likes: 103
From: West Mids
Default

Well not owning one i wouldnt know that, i just listen to all the managers moaning about them........still seems helluva lot of oil to use for a low revving engine.....
Reply
Old Sep 24, 2008 | 03:00 PM
  #10  
RichieST's Avatar
RichieST
15K+ Super Poster!!
iTrader: (2)
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 18,732
Likes: 449
From: Wiltshire
Default

No real way to tell really, just do an oil/filter change with the correct oil and if its still running fine in 10 years time then i guess no damage was done
Reply
Old Sep 24, 2008 | 03:03 PM
  #11  
Mad Matt's Avatar
Mad Matt
Rally nut
iTrader: (2)
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,007
Likes: 0
From: Cumbria
Default

We use Castrol LongLife III on all VW diesels there, and no real problem. Only see 1 customer each month with oil light on. Not more. Use VW oil spec 507.00 for all VW "modern" diesels engines and it should be fine.

Otherwise use Golf Synt oil.
Reply
Old Sep 24, 2008 | 03:17 PM
  #12  
Turbosystems's Avatar
Turbosystems
Super Moderator
iTrader: (5)
 
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 12,849
Likes: 50
From: home
Default

perhaps that how they get such good mpg from the diesel they are using the engine oil too roflol
they're not called oil burners for nothing
Reply
Old Sep 24, 2008 | 03:36 PM
  #13  
Mad Matt's Avatar
Mad Matt
Rally nut
iTrader: (2)
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,007
Likes: 0
From: Cumbria
Default

Just try to remove the throttle body from a VW diesel engine for example (especially the recent ones like BKC, BKD), you won't belive your eyes lol.

EGR FTW
Reply
Old Sep 24, 2008 | 03:38 PM
  #14  
Lee_R21Turbo's Avatar
Lee_R21Turbo
Thread Starter
PassionFord Post Whore!!
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,715
Likes: 0
From: Liverpool :o)
Default

I keep meaning to remove my EGR off my Bora completely - everytime I've taken the boost hose off & peered inside I've wished I hadnt! LOL!
Reply
Old Sep 24, 2008 | 03:39 PM
  #15  
Shorty's Avatar
Shorty
PassionFord Post Whore!!
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,016
Likes: 0
From: Liverpool
Default

Diva put some fully synth in mine.

He said its fine though?
Reply
Old Sep 24, 2008 | 03:42 PM
  #16  
Mad Matt's Avatar
Mad Matt
Rally nut
iTrader: (2)
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,007
Likes: 0
From: Cumbria
Default

Originally Posted by Lee_R21Turbo
I keep meaning to remove my EGR off my Bora completely - everytime I've taken the boost hose off & peered inside I've wished I hadnt! LOL!
I've sometimes got more oil from there than from the sump when draining the oil off.

More seriously, its not just a problem with VW engines (and by VW I do mean engines are used in Skodas, Seats and Audis), but with all diesel engines are crap. Its just diesel...
Reply
Old Sep 24, 2008 | 03:48 PM
  #17  
Lee_R21Turbo's Avatar
Lee_R21Turbo
Thread Starter
PassionFord Post Whore!!
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,715
Likes: 0
From: Liverpool :o)
Default

Originally Posted by Shorty
Diva put some fully synth in mine.

He said its fine though?
I've just read that it can seriously shorten the life of the PD pumps!!!
Reply
Old Sep 24, 2008 | 03:53 PM
  #18  
Shorty's Avatar
Shorty
PassionFord Post Whore!!
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,016
Likes: 0
From: Liverpool
Default

Originally Posted by Lee_R21Turbo
I've just read that it can seriously shorten the life of the PD pumps!!!

PMSL!

Thank fook it was only a tidy bit.
Reply
Old Sep 24, 2008 | 04:26 PM
  #19  
lawnsy's Avatar
lawnsy
PassionFord Post Troll
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,776
Likes: 0
From: Northeast
Default

We look after a taxi at work that has the 1.9pd engine and we just put normal 10/40 semi synth in it cause the owner is to tight to pay for pd oil and one of them has over 200k on it and only thing it has had engine wise is a new clutch at 120k.....

The same owner wants his handbrake on 1 click everytime we service the car then comes back saying its sticking on after a few miles and wants it looking at but still wants it on 1 click....lol
Reply
Old Sep 24, 2008 | 04:56 PM
  #20  
markk's Avatar
markk
10K+ Poster!!
20 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (2)
 
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 10,639
Likes: 105
From: Lancs
Default

the wrong oil in a PD will cause bad running issues, bad cold start especially, been there seen it loads of times.
Reply
Old Sep 24, 2008 | 05:11 PM
  #21  
Mad Matt's Avatar
Mad Matt
Rally nut
iTrader: (2)
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,007
Likes: 0
From: Cumbria
Default

Originally Posted by markk
the wrong oil in a PD will cause bad running issues, bad cold start especially, been there seen it loads of times.
Can be the pre-warming spark plug sometimes (saw this few times on these engines). Also sometimes can be a software issue with the ECU (need upgrade).
Reply
Old Sep 24, 2008 | 05:44 PM
  #22  
JamesH's Avatar
JamesH
10K+ Poster!!
iTrader: (21)
 
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 10,807
Likes: 8
From: .
Default

Originally Posted by Lee_R21Turbo
I keep meaning to remove my EGR off my Bora completely - everytime I've taken the boost hose off & peered inside I've wished I hadnt! LOL!

DON'T!!!!!
Reply
Old Sep 25, 2008 | 07:02 AM
  #23  
James's Avatar
James
PassionFord Post Whore!!
 
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 5,224
Likes: 1
From: South West
Default

it'll be fine don't worry in small doses!
Reply
Old Sep 25, 2008 | 07:50 AM
  #24  
Lee_R21Turbo's Avatar
Lee_R21Turbo
Thread Starter
PassionFord Post Whore!!
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,715
Likes: 0
From: Liverpool :o)
Default

Originally Posted by James90RS
DON'T!!!!!
Eh wot?!
Reply
Old Sep 25, 2008 | 08:04 AM
  #25  
JamesH's Avatar
JamesH
10K+ Poster!!
iTrader: (21)
 
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 10,807
Likes: 8
From: .
Default

If you knew what effect removing EGR when the calibration still thinks it is there has, you would definetily think twice about removing it!
Reply
Old Sep 25, 2008 | 08:08 AM
  #26  
Lee_R21Turbo's Avatar
Lee_R21Turbo
Thread Starter
PassionFord Post Whore!!
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,715
Likes: 0
From: Liverpool :o)
Default

Originally Posted by James90RS
If you knew what effect removing EGR when the calibration still thinks it is there has, you would definetily think twice about removing it!
Well come on then....dont keep us in the dark...spit it out - am curious now! lol!!

I know you can set the EGR adjustment down using VAGCOM as well cant you.
Reply
Old Sep 25, 2008 | 08:21 AM
  #27  
JamesH's Avatar
JamesH
10K+ Poster!!
iTrader: (21)
 
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 10,807
Likes: 8
From: .
Default

Lowering EGR will increase turbo speed significantly, thus possibly overspeeding the turbo (depending how close the the l;imit the calibration is), and possibly causing it to fail
Reply
Old Sep 25, 2008 | 08:26 AM
  #28  
Lee_R21Turbo's Avatar
Lee_R21Turbo
Thread Starter
PassionFord Post Whore!!
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,715
Likes: 0
From: Liverpool :o)
Default

Thats VERY interesting actually......the persons car who had to top up the oil, has just had the turbo let go - the cars got an Allard EGR Removal pipe on there - according to the service history its the 3rd turbo thats gone - its only on 96k - the garage said it was because its been re-mapped to roughly 180bhp & couldnt take the pressure!!

Although I thought the EGR re-circulation only occured under part throttle not under wide open throttle - if so how can the turbo overspin as I doubt you would get full boost on part throttle?

Last edited by Lee_R21Turbo; Sep 25, 2008 at 08:30 AM.
Reply
Old Sep 25, 2008 | 09:01 AM
  #29  
JamesH's Avatar
JamesH
10K+ Poster!!
iTrader: (21)
 
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 10,807
Likes: 8
From: .
Default

Doesn't need full boost to overspeed. EGR will go in at full pedal, just not at very high rpm, so upto 4kish you'll do a lot of damage

I run engine dynos for a living mate - and alter all ECU variables daily, main timing, boost, throttle, MAF (EGR basically) etc

And how MAF/EGR effects the turbo speed (instrumented so you can see the actual speed i,e 240,000rpm ) is very suprising at first
Reply
Old Sep 25, 2008 | 09:04 AM
  #30  
JamesH's Avatar
JamesH
10K+ Poster!!
iTrader: (21)
 
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 10,807
Likes: 8
From: .
Default

Also, there will be certain parts in the map, that EGR is the ONLY thing stopping the turbo overspeeding (as it reduces turbo speed). I've removed too much EGR many times, and then the engine shuts down because it knows the turbo has oversped, obviously a car does not do this, as it does not have a turbo speed pick up
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
JoeyBoyden
General Car Related Discussion.
20
Aug 22, 2015 03:23 PM
JoeyBoyden
General Car Related Discussion.
0
Aug 18, 2015 10:52 PM
ekjim
General Car Related Discussion.
6
Aug 17, 2015 08:57 PM
track.focus'd
Restorations, Rebuilds & Projects.
26
Aug 12, 2015 05:53 PM
st220kyle
Ford Mondeo Including ST
3
Aug 6, 2015 09:17 PM




All times are GMT. The time now is 04:55 PM.