I've read about consumer interest in green technology in all the building trade mags but would appreciate some "real world" feedback.
Would you like eco-friendly technologies fitted to your new build house?
I'm not meaning low energy bulbs etc but more extreme stuff like solar electric (photovoltaic) or solar water heating panels, wind turbines, ground pump heating etc.
I'm guessing most will say yes BUT would you pay extra for it or would you like it as a purchase option?

Thanks for voting

 

i would say yes

i am looking for land to build my own home on and i would have the lot

i plan to stay so what i spend now i wil recoup in the long run

why people wouldnt want this i dont know

 

Thats why I posted the poll as most seem to be into it until it comes to the bottom line. Going green costs...simple as

I'm keen to incorporate as much eco-friendly gear as possible in my latest development (109 houses) thats due to start new year.
The Grant process is so long winded (no pun ) that I'm starting the applications now.

 

Absolutely, and yes it does cost more up front, but choose the right technology and the pay back is fine, especially if you are installing as part of a new build.

Also as an energy manager I know what does and doesn't work.

Cam, for your develpment I would seriously consider Combined Heat and Power so you have one central generator and boiler plant feeding heat and power to all the houses. You will be able to sell the owners cheaper power, you would be able to generate LEC's which you can sell back to the energy suppliers and if you use a biomass fuel you would also be able to generate RO certificates (ROC's) which are tradable and worth as much as the power itself.

PM me if you want to chat about it.

Steer clear of small wind turbines unless you are in a specifically windy area and have space to put them away from buildings

 

I think that's the problem with environmental solutions at the moment. I would love to put some in as I have a conscience about that sort of thing, but to retro-fit is too expensive, even including what little governement subsidies are available.

Personally, if I was buying a new build, environmental energy solutions would be a factor when I was looking to purchase. I would consider it a serious added bonus, and it would be very attractive.

I'm sure I would be in the minority, but I reckon it's becoming more "fashionable" as green issues beomce more personal, so will be a factor in years to come. Obviously if you approach it from a "cost saving for the purchaser" point of view, it's going to be attractive to many more people!

You on about individual stuff like solar roof panels, and ground source heat pumps, or larger stuff like Paul suggests?

Interesting stuff though......

 

I'd be up for it but wouldnt want to pay any extra for it, if the government paid/contributed for it to help them combat climate / green etc then i'd be happy to oblige and do my bit.

 

I'd pay the extra for eco-friendly soloutions if I was buying another house, you may be paying extra now but in the long run it should work in your favour by actually savingyu money on bills etc & it will be more attractive to buyers in the future should you wish to sell up.

 

i would pay extra at the beginning as long as the savings would come in the long term.

in germany, a lot of new houses come with some environmental features. in particular, rain water capture is common. you generally have a massive tank under your garden (they dig a huge hole anyway for the cellar, so it's not much more hassle to mkae it a bit bigger for a water tank). rain water is captured from the roof of the house and stored in he tank for use as toilet flushing, garden watering etc

heat pumps are great if you have the land space needed for the coil (or sink one down). the benefit of a heat pump system is that you can run it in reverse for air conditioning in the summer.

the best bet though is just to have a properly built building in the first place with good insulation.

led lighting is now viable which can reduce the energy usage of a house massively.

 

Absolutely, we're about to use a 5watt LED's in our shops instead of the 50w normal spots. They also have a life of 30,000 hours rather than 5minutes.

They obviously cost more intially but the payback can be in months!!

Edited to say theyre a perfect replacement for kitchen spot lights.

 

Yes i would pay more for the right technologies, as mentioned above wind turbines are a pile off s**t, for location reasons and the % of time that they actually produce power. Much like full size wind turbines across the country, expensive, unreliable and NOT environmetally friendly despite what the government tells us.
Solar panels, rainwater collection and use for non human consumption activites.
Clever design of house such as thinking about the sunny elevation and how to harness that energy, where to have large windows and where not to etc.

 

i think the generalisation on the large ones is unfair. Yes you can talk about total life carbon emissions for the manufacturing process but at the end of the day they do provide us with another source of energy which is the most important thing.

All the suppliers know what their doing and know that the output is only circa 25-30% of the time and factor this in. They wouldn't keep building them if they thought they weren''t working.

 

That would depend on government pressure and support (£) for the renewables, wheather they are whole life environmetally friendly or not.

I remember reading an article in an environmetal magazine (not available in shops), that one of the scandinavian countries had taken down several wind farms that were erected 10 yrs or so ago due the the ineffectiveness and unreliability.
It's is a fact that the coldest days of the year usually fall when there is little or NO wind. Maximum power requirement by the nation and NO generation by wind turbines, just doesn't make sense to me.

Don't get me wrong i'm all for saving the planet, but selection of the correct technologies to do it. Eg tidal, can't see a day when the tide will decide not to come in or out.

 

if i was going to stay put for many years then probably, but in the short term, i'd go for a cheeper house without the green stuff.

if i realy cared i'd use a 1.0l micra or some other shit for the daily 8mile 45min drive to work etc.

 

Dave, we will never run our network on 100% wind turbines and wind is only part of the wider renewable generation levels we are aiming for, for the exact reason you mentioned.

We also have spare capacity for maximum demand, circa 120% of MD on a good winter. We also have the largest coal fired power station in Europe, Drax, which has actually coverted to Biomass so this shows the mix in large scale renewable technology.

10years is a long time ago in wind technology advancement. I'm not suprised they took them down. Early turbines were plagued with gearbox issues.

I too hope they get some good pilot project results on the tidal stuff as this all adds to the pot. I know there's a big one they'd like to do in the Severn Estuary.

 

Probably BS but i heard that the large wind turbines will take on average 300 years to generate the amount of power that it cost to make them...

Could it really be that long?

 

Absolute bollocks A decent project will payback in 7 years!!!

It's Solar PV which can take longer to payback than the panels last!! But costs are reducing.

 

Aint pub talk great!

 

We built our house 17 years ago and paid extra for things like double-glazed windows and enhanced insulation over and above the standards required at that time.

Now technology has made heat-exchangers, turbines, solar panels etc more affordable I would take them on in a new-build without a second thought PROVIDED I could see the evidence of the benefit:
e.g. this "extra" will cost me £1000 now but reduce my average annual energy bill by £x amount, so after y years I'm ahead.

Too many people are running the risk of screwing it up by making false claims for their products, e.g. electric heaters that are more than 100% efficient just because they have a thermostat so don't run all the time!

 

Superb thread and great input from you paul!

I would look for Greenness in a house - infact I did with mine. 1st thing I did was the simple stuff like energy saving light bulbs (pervious owners used none at all). Next are timers on the heaters and hot water (everything is electic on Econo7), and LED lights in the bath room

Alex

 

Anything that will or can potentially save you money in the long run is well worth it in my opinion.

 

I'd like to know more about this. Do you mean just replacing the bulbs or changing the actual fittings? Where would I get them?

We have halogens in the hall, bathroom, lounge and dining room but I've never figured out if they are good or bad power-wise.

 

7 years financial payback maybe slightly optimistic, unless very efficiently contracted and managed. But most certianly NOT 300 yrs.

However, i don't believe that there is enough evidence around proving the environmental benefit of wind turbines, ie. the CARBON impact, and the period it takes to be saving carbon in comparision other sources such as Nuclear. There is significant infrastructure build as well as the tubines themselves to be considered that all impacts (construction, materials, waste, transport, etc etc). Consider the number of turbines required to supply the same as a reasonable size power station.

Very interesting topic though, that impacts on everyone environmetally and financially.

 

Not sure you can compare the impact on the environment of wind turbines and nuclear power

 

I'm a fan of nuclear but think of all the concrete involved, which has one of the most energy intensive processes to make. I absolutely agree that one decent sized nuclear station is probably more than all the renwable generation in this country though and I'm glad the government has given the go ahead. Anyway, there's always carbon offsets

7 years is a very good WT project, 10 years is more typical. I should know as I'm in the process of setting one up now

THe LED's we are using come from www.smaclite.co.uk They aren't on the website yet but you can give them a ring. THey are also direct replacement so you don't have to change the fitting. You'd be looking at around £15 for a single 5W LED!

 

Wind turbines are a bit of a nightmare from a maintaince point of view.

They are constantly fucking up apparently, and that never gets mentioned when you buy one of course, lol

So the projected time to recoup your costs, is often out by an infinite amount of time, as if you get a few expensive problems occuring, you never actually see your money back.

 

normally just change the bulbs

it doesn't take much working out - a typical halogen bulb is 50W (of which most is heat, and not much is light) and an LED is about 5W of which it is virtually all light. so each bulb uses a tenth of the electricity, but costs a lot more so takes some time to pay back. LEDs have the additional benefit of lasting much longer than halogens though, so rarely have to be replaced so they pay for themselves much quicker than the energy consumption figures suggest

 

All depends on type, manufacturer, location etc which people don't realise.

A 1.2kW micro turbine will actually only give you approx 400watts in a 6m/s wind which is the min wind speed you need to get anything decent out of it. It will probably cost you about £2k for a decent on.

Based on a 25% wind uptime @ 400watts, you are looking at a 19year payback on a micro turbine!

Obviously this won't even boil a kettle

 

Looked into getting solar heating in our new house, which we are doing out. It was going to cost a fortune for very little benefit so didn't bother..

 

but with the way energy prices are going, the payback time from solar, wind etc will come down rapidly

 

Nuclear
Just requires very carefull long term management planning.

Are the led lights just available for down lights to replace the 12v halogens, or is a wider range available ? Anyone..

 

They'll probably just put the price of them up, so the payback stays around the same (just worth it in the long term).

 

Yes, I think you can get them as a direct replacement.

 

Many Thanks for everyones input but a very special thanks to Paul!
As I suspected the majority are not wanting to pay a premium for green tech but with the scale of next years project a centralised energy hub would be the ultimate solution including bottom line (Paul, expect loads of PMs ).

 

Posted the same poll on the GTR Reg and the so far the results are very negative.

 

I am a bit of a hypocrite as the only vehicles of mine with cats not removed are the works vans/plant

 

You should see how much I get the piss taken out of me when I go to work in the CSL