RS500 v std Cossie ?

Just a few simple questions 1st
What boost did the std RS500 run as it came out of the crate?
Was the compression ratio the same as the std 3dr Cossie?
If you ran a 500 on 4 greens would it run higher boost then the equivalent 3dr?

And now for those who have driven a std 500
What rpm does the power come in at?
Running totally std spec - is the 500 be a better track car then the 3dr? i.e. power out of the corners? Lag?

 

For that i would say no!! as u got a bigger turbo so the volume of air is greater etc and ur still limiter with the fuel on greens etc.

 

500 in standard form is pretty poor.

and a standard 3dr will trounch a 500 round a track.

if the cars were running the same boost i.e 15psi each then the 500 would be quicker (in the long run) due to the t4 producing more air

a standard 500 is very laggy and will get left every time by a 3dr

 

So in a word they are crap
Gutted! Not what I wanted to hear - but then they say the truth hurts

 

no not at all.

far from it.

but your comparing a car that was built in procudtion i.e (500) purely for racing so would be tuned. to a car (3dr) that was built as standard to be lively and drivable

 

500 is better specced, but its potential was not unleashed when it left the factory

as a standard car its quite simply a bit pants and horrible to drive.

slap a couple of quick bolt on bits and wire up some other bits n bobs and it'll f**kin shift tho!

 

Jim...have you driven a RS500 then?.... man

 

no, i'm basing my comments on my passenger experiences and the people i know who own/have owned them saying "theyre horrible to drive"

 

Wapster had a 500 until recently. Never heard him say it was horrible to drive once.

I can imagine that due to the lag it can be hard to drive fast round town. But i dont think they are horrible to drive if you dont have to have it on boost all the time. Motorway and long streches of road would be awesome to wind a 500 up on!

 

wapsters wasnt standard dave

 

yeah i know that, but he'd still be very laggy with a T4, standard or not!

 

I was thinking more on the track! I realise the std 500 may be not to cleaver a road car, esp given it has to drive to the shops n back lol
I just took it that on the track the 500 would be making use of its bigger turbo and be making more power plus maybe being able to use a higher rev range? (sorry I haven’t got a clue what they reved to as stock )


Be interesting to see an overlay of a std Cossie powergraph against the std 500
Be easier to make a comparison that way

 

the standard rs500,

is very laggy and is a bit disapointing tp drive, as you build your self up and then is slower than a standard three door, a touch quicker top end but thats it, all at only 9 psi

with a set of greens and chip ect, there easy 340 bhp, and much more responsive at about 21 psi , this now feels a quick car and it was a shame ford did not deliver them like this


after this greys are next and you are pushing the standard engine, for reliability,

next step is full blue print, lots of modds later, but still retaining all the main engine parts like block ect, is full race spec, 2 bar plus boost will be over 500 bhp,

2.3 bar which my road car runs, worked out @ 527 on the dyno, so fitted in the car is easy over 500 bhp,

standard is very laggy and you will soon get bored of it,

greens for a man on a bugget, much faster and not much will get past you, while still beeing reliable,

full spec, very fast, still a little laggy but the air injectors help, 0/60 4.6 and 0/100 9 sec all on crap road tyres. and only 174 mph with a 3.9 diff.

 

Cheers martin
Ok up the stakes a bit then

Both cars are still stock but ....

The 500 is now on 4 greens @ 25psi and so is the 3dr but with a T34
Now which car is the better car out on the track?
Does the 500 still lose out of the corners?

 

This is a very interesting thread as this is something that i was also pondering

 

Which is better on a track? i'd say T4 is better, it is not overstressed at this level of power and is less restrictive i.e. getting the gasses out of the engine, things tend to run abit cooler compared to the same engine with a T34 strapped on it. They may require some "driver input" to get the full potential out of them, but the T4 car would be better in the long run, it might not feel very exciting but then your not using the turbo to it's full potential at this level, where as the T34 will be very lively, but won't hold as much boost above 6.5k RPM, the T4 laughs in the face of this It's all swings and roundabouts, T34 will come on boost quicker but T4 will stay on boost longer and produce more of it, the trick is to learn how to drive the T4 powered car, it takes some getting used to.

I'd put the greens in the bin and get a set of greys on there, or 8 greens if it's on a proper RS500 setup. T4 can produce far more air than 4x 803 greens can deal with, boost control is also an important issue! It's all about the way the engine is setup, correctly specced cams + mapping can turn a T4 equipped lag monster into an absolute screamer

Your best off speaking to a specialist to get the most out of your setup i.e. TurboSystems, NMS, Reyland, MSD, MAD etc etc

 

the only other point is,

if you compare the two cars, and say both have been modded to say stage 3 greens,

the three door will still have a very small intercooler by comparasion, and the 500 will have the addvantage of the spliters and better air flow though the front bumper and the also have more downforce with the two rear spoilers,

so better cooling

better downforce

holds power high up rev range

bigger ports as standard compared to the three door,

un stressed at this level of tune,

 

3 door with a T34 would be a better tool unless you were on a real long circuit like the GP Silverstone as the T4 wouldn't come into its own until a long straight and would be laggy out of the corners where a T34 would spool up quicker.
As far as I know the 500 had the same suspension didn't it, so handling would be the same
Sod the stress, my motors strive on being stressed

 

the suspeneion is the same but the downforce is better on the 500, so will be able to go faster! on the bends.

 

the rs500 had adjustable suspension arms. correct if im wrong

 

no it didnt.

 

the rs 500 had a revised rear beam with different pick up points as far as i remember

 

the arms were not adjustable! there was provision to mount the arms in a different position but they were unusable without major surgery!!

i had a 500 for about 10 years and can honestly say that the lag was never an issue, the punch in the back from the bigger turbo was much more of a thrill than driving the saph, it was also easier to drive around town as it did not want to jump towards the red line and on the track it flew as long as you used the gears!!!

 

3dr are farst standed proven

 

As someone who had a Stage III 500 and now has a 3 door running a T34 with Greens, 500 cooler etc etc etc

I would much rather have the 3 door as a car to drive on a regular basis.

I didnt find lag too much of a problem with the 500, but then I had it set up by Bob Murray at Automotive Unlimited who rejetted the amal valve and used a decent chip designed for the 500 running greens.

To drive on a track I think the 500 would be harder work because you'd have to keep the revs up to keep on the edge of the turbos 'power band' ie around 3750 rpm ready for when you come out a bend and nail it up the straight.


Would I have another 500......... ?? Errrrrrrr go on then...

 

lol neil stage 3 never bin over 70 mph

 

It's horses for courses.

Why do you want a 500?

I bought mine because of the tuning potential, what I wanted to tune it to and for the heritage and prestige of owning what is considered by many as being "THE" Cosworth.

I personally would never want a normal 3DR, nor a Saph..... but thats my choice and we all like things for certain reasons.

I have never driven a 3DR on a T3, so cannot comment, but have owned RST's and Escort Cossies, so appreciate the differences in driveability between different types.

I've had many mods done to my 500. While the car is still laggy when being driven normally, if you change your style to selecting the correct gear for the T4 to ensure you are on boost or you drive it properly through the gears, it is awesomely quick (have you tried driving a T4 tuned motor past 7k in 4th & 5th!!... the road somewhat blurs). It is certainly quick enough for me and I think I will stick at the power level I am at now.

I personally dont care how quick or slow it is against others, that is not my motive. I get more self satisfaction when people admire it when it is on the road or parked up..... and in that scenario it makes no difference whether it has 20bhp or 500bhp, or has more or less lag than a T3....... apart from when the bonnet is open and people start pointing at the nice bits that make the power!

 

At least mine got driven you cheeky chimp......

 

I don’t

It was my way of finding out what engine spec would be better on the track- be it std 3dr std 500 or lightly modified 3dr/500

Appreciate all the input either way