Stu, head is off.......
Stu, head is off.......
Got some pictures....
It's deffo been leaking round No 1 cylinder between chamber and the water jackets which would explain why the plug always seemed to corrode on that cylinder....
The oil in No 4 is related to the head/valves/seals/guides itself as you can see oil in the ports and a film of oil on the valves only on that cylinder (mainly the rear most exhaust valve and both the inlet valve). We will investigate this further to find out the exact cause but it doesn't look like the head gasket is the cause of the first thing in the morning misfire....also in the chamber in the head, there is more carbon deposits than in the other chambers.
The gasket was warped ever so slightly round cylinder 4 but round No 1 it was warped so badly that the 3 layers are opening up away from each other and are about 40mm apart! I will get pictures if you so require...
It's just odd why the car has only done something like 6k on this gasket...I know we had thermostat problems ages ago but it never actually boiled up...
It's deffo been leaking round No 1 cylinder between chamber and the water jackets which would explain why the plug always seemed to corrode on that cylinder....
The oil in No 4 is related to the head/valves/seals/guides itself as you can see oil in the ports and a film of oil on the valves only on that cylinder (mainly the rear most exhaust valve and both the inlet valve). We will investigate this further to find out the exact cause but it doesn't look like the head gasket is the cause of the first thing in the morning misfire....also in the chamber in the head, there is more carbon deposits than in the other chambers.
The gasket was warped ever so slightly round cylinder 4 but round No 1 it was warped so badly that the 3 layers are opening up away from each other and are about 40mm apart! I will get pictures if you so require...
It's just odd why the car has only done something like 6k on this gasket...I know we had thermostat problems ages ago but it never actually boiled up...
I will obtain some pictures of the gasket....it's like the fire ring area has swelled and caused the gasket to warp massively round No 1....where it's been clamped by the studs it seems nob on but where the bolts are it's not......esspecially at the front of the engine...
The car was running perfect except a misfire from first start up which we identified as being oil filtering into No 4 chamber over night....looking like stem seals/guides etc... and under hard load it would blow steam out of the N/S bonnet vent (no misfires or anything until recently). The engine started misfiring under load again (been doing it on and off for ages) which is always No 4...again down to the oil...
This car is running 780cc injectors and 34psi on an MD240R turbo and modded plenum elbow. On the T34 it didn't seem to blow steam out of the vent.....
The car was running perfect except a misfire from first start up which we identified as being oil filtering into No 4 chamber over night....looking like stem seals/guides etc... and under hard load it would blow steam out of the N/S bonnet vent (no misfires or anything until recently). The engine started misfiring under load again (been doing it on and off for ages) which is always No 4...again down to the oil...
This car is running 780cc injectors and 34psi on an MD240R turbo and modded plenum elbow. On the T34 it didn't seem to blow steam out of the vent.....
Norris Motorsport
Joined: May 2003
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From: Derbyshire
Firstly I'm not a fan of 6 long studding. It never gives the correct torque down on the head.
Secondly I believe the cometic head gasket is not up to the job. When I worked at Jaguar I spent a couple of years working on head gasket design and can tell you that after examining the design of the cometic MLS gasket it is poor and not "proper" head gasket technology. (i.e. is not designed or manufactured using the latest technology of MLS but uses a very cheap method of construction)
Secondly I believe the cometic head gasket is not up to the job. When I worked at Jaguar I spent a couple of years working on head gasket design and can tell you that after examining the design of the cometic MLS gasket it is poor and not "proper" head gasket technology. (i.e. is not designed or manufactured using the latest technology of MLS but uses a very cheap method of construction)
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PassionFord Post Whore!!
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From: Gloucestershire
just wondering here and I admit to having no real knowledge of engines, but as ppl seem to be having a few probs with cometic gaskets lately, is it not possable to use 2 or 3 group a gaskets together to get the same or similar strength as a cometic gasket is meant to give ?
There is another Cometic sat here waiting to go on when we are ready to reassemble...
Just wondering why the front of the gasket warped far more than the rear. The rear of the gasket is ever so slight yet the front is extremely pissed. Something to do with differences in the clamping force between the the studs and bolts? Front bolts streching more than the rears?
Just wondering why the front of the gasket warped far more than the rear. The rear of the gasket is ever so slight yet the front is extremely pissed. Something to do with differences in the clamping force between the the studs and bolts? Front bolts streching more than the rears?
Norris Motorsport
Joined: May 2003
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From: Derbyshire
Daz,
Without having the gasket I can't tell you why it failed, but head clamping does sound suspect.
Did all 6 long studs click off at 90lb f ft, what did you use/method for the outer 4, and what was the crack off torque of both the studs and bolts when you took the head off?
I personally would not advise the cometic gasket. Stick to the genuine mountune item. It may seem expensive, but in comparison the cometic is absolutely day light robbery for the method of construction used so is in fact worse value than the mountune item!! Better to pay too much for a quality item than quite a lot for a shite item.
Without having the gasket I can't tell you why it failed, but head clamping does sound suspect.
Did all 6 long studs click off at 90lb f ft, what did you use/method for the outer 4, and what was the crack off torque of both the studs and bolts when you took the head off?
I personally would not advise the cometic gasket. Stick to the genuine mountune item. It may seem expensive, but in comparison the cometic is absolutely day light robbery for the method of construction used so is in fact worse value than the mountune item!! Better to pay too much for a quality item than quite a lot for a shite item.
Unfortunately I can't answer any of those questions Karl.
It was my Dad who dismantled the car. Stu assembled the engine about 16 months ago and I trust he knew what he was doing with them....
I will say that the gasket never actually leaked when off boost or using low to mid boost...only when it hit high boost/ maximum load....
It was my Dad who dismantled the car. Stu assembled the engine about 16 months ago and I trust he knew what he was doing with them....
I will say that the gasket never actually leaked when off boost or using low to mid boost...only when it hit high boost/ maximum load....
Norris Motorsport
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 3,437
Likes: 3
From: Derbyshire
The thing is Daz that applies to all headgaskets. They rarely fail when subject to lower boost but theres always so much boost thats effectively the straw that breaks the camels back.
So far every cometic gasket I've used has failed in one way of another, and I have had NO mountune gasket fails.
You only have to look at the rest of the gaskets in the cometic set to see you're dealing with gaskets that make atomic gaskets seem like real quality, that can be bought from your local motor factors for around £10 for the full engine set!!!
The worst one of all is the exhaust manifold gaskets in the cometic set. Shocking is'nt the word!!!!
So far every cometic gasket I've used has failed in one way of another, and I have had NO mountune gasket fails.
You only have to look at the rest of the gaskets in the cometic set to see you're dealing with gaskets that make atomic gaskets seem like real quality, that can be bought from your local motor factors for around £10 for the full engine set!!!
The worst one of all is the exhaust manifold gaskets in the cometic set. Shocking is'nt the word!!!!
PassionFords Creator
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Im at home at mo so cant view the pictures due to my 1950's technology 28k connection...
Il take a look at them when i get to work, got car's in at 9 though and im leaving at 1 so ive a busy day ahead of me im afraid mate so il go in at 8 (30mins early) to give it some attention and thought whilst drinking copious amounts of tea...
Il take a look at them when i get to work, got car's in at 9 though and im leaving at 1 so ive a busy day ahead of me im afraid mate so il go in at 8 (30mins early) to give it some attention and thought whilst drinking copious amounts of tea...
PassionFords Creator
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Im not seeing anything worthy of note from those pictures to be honest Mick, Maybe it is simply head seal failure and nothing more...
With regards the cometic, the choice obviously is yours, seems a few people are having issues with them at the moment but i stil stand by my decision to use one and have had no problems with anyone elses gasket and know people with high power YB's also using them with no problems.
I dont think they are quite as good as the Mountune 4layer granted, but they are certainly 100 times better than any fibrous compound gasket like the YBO611.
The studding arrangement i chose again can be argued till we are all blue in the face but ive used them countless times as have many other people and again, ive never had any problems with them. As Karl noted, i would have liked to have known the yield of the nuts /studs but its too late now.
The slight detmarks around the squish area may be due to either a bad batch of fuel, the oil ingress noted already or simply be evidence of the 2 mapping sessions this engine has had in its 2 different specs where its been brought to det to find its limits. It is very light and certainly hasnt been prolonged / damaging det during everyday running.
Id like to see the gasket itself if possible to see thios distortion as it may be down to the seal as you seperated the head and block where one side was simply stuck to the head and the gasket was in fact warped by your removal of the items.
Other than that, theres nothing at all to see from these pics other than shes remarkably clean internally for an 18mth old 6000mile engine on 750cc injectors.
Speak to you soon im sure.
With regards the cometic, the choice obviously is yours, seems a few people are having issues with them at the moment but i stil stand by my decision to use one and have had no problems with anyone elses gasket and know people with high power YB's also using them with no problems.
I dont think they are quite as good as the Mountune 4layer granted, but they are certainly 100 times better than any fibrous compound gasket like the YBO611.
The studding arrangement i chose again can be argued till we are all blue in the face but ive used them countless times as have many other people and again, ive never had any problems with them. As Karl noted, i would have liked to have known the yield of the nuts /studs but its too late now.
The slight detmarks around the squish area may be due to either a bad batch of fuel, the oil ingress noted already or simply be evidence of the 2 mapping sessions this engine has had in its 2 different specs where its been brought to det to find its limits. It is very light and certainly hasnt been prolonged / damaging det during everyday running.
Id like to see the gasket itself if possible to see thios distortion as it may be down to the seal as you seperated the head and block where one side was simply stuck to the head and the gasket was in fact warped by your removal of the items.
Other than that, theres nothing at all to see from these pics other than shes remarkably clean internally for an 18mth old 6000mile engine on 750cc injectors.
Speak to you soon im sure.
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Joined: May 2003
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From: Doncaster
resize your 1950's screen resolution then 
quick education needed re long studding....
does this only get done inbetween cylinder bores then? i.e. not on 1,2,9,10 headbolt holes? how come? is it a block thing i.e. cant be done on outer edges or summat? 6 studs and 10 bolts cant give the same clamping force as 10 of the same surely? i thought all 10 were done
and stu i aint looking for the "blue in the face" route pal
im just curious as its a term ive heard many times that i dont know owt about
quick education needed re long studding....
does this only get done inbetween cylinder bores then? i.e. not on 1,2,9,10 headbolt holes? how come? is it a block thing i.e. cant be done on outer edges or summat? 6 studs and 10 bolts cant give the same clamping force as 10 of the same surely? i thought all 10 were done
and stu i aint looking for the "blue in the face" route pal
im just curious as its a term ive heard many times that i dont know owt about
Norris Motorsport
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 3,437
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From: Derbyshire
I agree with Stu that the engine does look in excellent condition otherwise.
I will stand by my comments that its most likely due to the cometic gasket being inadequate or due to impropper head clamping.
On the other side of the coin I've had issues with long studding regarding correct head clamping but not with std head bolts and is one reason I won't 6 long stud a block.
I will stand by my comments that its most likely due to the cometic gasket being inadequate or due to impropper head clamping.
On the other side of the coin I've had issues with long studding regarding correct head clamping but not with std head bolts and is one reason I won't 6 long stud a block.
PassionFords Creator
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From: Blackpool, UK Destination: Rev limiter
Matt, only 6 are done because the outers cant be studded without severe mods and greater expense mate.
As for screen resolution, im running 1024x768 which is fine IMO
No point speculating any further IMO as thats all it is... "Speculation" Im sure i will see this hardware in the flesh soon enough for a better evaluation
As for screen resolution, im running 1024x768 which is fine IMO
No point speculating any further IMO as thats all it is... "Speculation" Im sure i will see this hardware in the flesh soon enough for a better evaluation
i too have used a few cometic gaskets in various applications at various horsepower ranges and am more than happy with the outcome 
, as for the long studs , i have to agree with karl , not a fan and will never build an engine using them , just the same as we disagree about the useage of differant cylinder blocks , thats one of the reasons there are so many people who build so many differant specs of engine for diff results
and have to agree , i like the conditon of the engine internals after 6k on fook off injectors !!
, as for the long studs , i have to agree with karl , not a fan and will never build an engine using them , just the same as we disagree about the useage of differant cylinder blocks , thats one of the reasons there are so many people who build so many differant specs of engine for diff results and have to agree , i like the conditon of the engine internals after 6k on fook off injectors !!
