I didn't no. At first i thought it was just a knackered starter cos it had been rebuilt before and i had a spare to hand so just put it in cos they're not that hard to get at on this car. A rushed decision perhaps. But i should test them now really that the second one isn't doing anything. Where do you put earth on the starter when you test it? When you say "sitched" i assume you mean the little stitched flat'ish wire going from the solenoid to the main body? Thanks for the help by the way lads.