gt5 was a big dissapointment to me after being a massive gt fan i guess it just wasnt worth the wait, its very pretty yes but irrespective of what you say above the cars just dont drive right, there is not enough adjustment to get them handling right, forza 3 pipped gt5 , forza 4 for me has blown gt5 out of the water! as for saying the adjustments on forza make little to no difference i say wtf??? they make a huge difference i suggest johnny you spend a little more time playing forza instead of playing with other swingers lol (just jelous really)