in reply to my own question, i managed to get the winder off the winder spindle(got some clues off youtube. it is held on by a spring clip that is located between the handle and the plastic spacer, but the guys on YT suggested getting a specialist tool(they were american BTW, enough said), but sod that, surely there must be something i could use that is in the house. sure enough i got hold of the fork that is used to hold a joint of meat while you carve it(my missus WAS out mind). just a couple of attempts was needed and to get it back on is even easier, just pop the clip back in and locate it and the tapered end of the spindle will let it lock back into place.

anyone else ready to smash the handle of when patience gets the better of them, then i will try and get some pictures up to help them along.