thanks for all the advice, i have read up alot, im not just jumping in at the deep end. i am a memeber on muscule talk and have asked on there and got pretty much the same advice.

and JamboRS im not a complete fucktard i know this is a car forum, but it has a weight training section as well, iv read through countless post in the section asking similer advice and there seems to be a few quite knowlegable people on here, which most of the post in this topic has shown, so why i was on here i thought i might as well ask.

i have read all about the sides, i think the pros out do the cons to be honest, i didnt want the bloat of dynabol and want to keep as much size when i fininsh. i have read with dynabol you loss quite a lot due to water retention.

im only gona a 4 week cycle, i think this will be more then enough for a my first, as for the pct, i have been using advance muscule science cloimdex which i found to to the job. whats a good test to take with the tren? does it have in be injectable or will oral do the job